www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Nativity fast and thanksgiving

I know that Thanksgiving did not exist when the Nativity fast was determined, but I am curious as to how people who have families where it is expected to be celebrated deal with it. Do you break the fast out of courtesy or is it really between you and your conscience and your confessor. I come from the West where it is considered a sin not to fast on a prescribed day (or to have a substitute) but in the East where the fasting is longer and stricter, I wonder if it is not seen as a matter of obedience or sin, so much as a strong recommendation for the sake of solidarity.
Brian

Hi Brian,
As Thanksgiving falls on a Thursday, abstinence from meat is not required (since it is not a Wed. or Fri.) I think each eparchy's bishop will set forth what is the minimal requirement of the fast. For Van Nuys, its no meat on Wed. & Fri. I came over to the east from the west & I do recall being told that even if it is a fast day that it is okay to accept meat at a meal so as not to be rude to the host. You could do a different penance for that day and abstain on another day. I usually just take veggies and the like and not eat the meat; or I might take a small piece so as not to be rude. I don't make an announcement about it- obviously that is not in keeping with what fasting is all about. My in-laws are baptist and they realize we don't eat meat on Fridays, but if I were at a friend's house who did not know & had prepared a meal, I would eat what they served & then do a different penance for that day & abstain the following day. I don't believe there is a set rule in stone in regards to this. Are you fasting, are you living out this season with a spirit of penance and preparing your heart & soul for the Lord's birth? I think the answers to these questions are most important.
Alexis

Thank you for the reply. There are though a lot of people from different backgrounds though. For instance for those who may be OCA thursday the 22nd is a fast day. Plus, if one were eating thanksgiving meal at night it technically would be considered Friday as well and a fast day. I know I tend to get technical and it is the Spirit that counts, but I am just trying to learn from other peoples perspectives. Your answer was helpful.

Dear SE,

Generally, in the Greek Orthodox church, our priests give us special dispensation to break the fast that day.

It is a unique holiday which was not around when the fasts were implemented.

It is also a uniquely American holiday which is the closest thing we have as a nation of different religions to a religious holiday for all to celebrate.

After all, it is not 'turkey' or 'football' day, but a day in which all gather together to thank God for our bounty, our families and friends, and all other blessings which we enjoy, individually and collectively, as Americans.

The turkey and foods that we eat are not so much 'the' holiday, but the bounty which our forefathers ate to have a feast and to thank God with.

You might want to ask your priest what he thinks.

Alice

Alice:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

In the old days, Alice, in the time of Abraham Lincoln everyone went to Church on Thanksgiving. I could not agree with you more that Thanksgiving is so much more than just a day to stuff one's self and immerse oneself in sporting events. It is truly a day to thank Our Loving God for all of the blessings which He gives to us. These blessings are not only received at Thanksgiving, but each and every day. Every day we should be thankful for what we have received! We reach out to the Lord and his hands are never empty, but filled with graces.

Slava Isusu Khrystu!

John Doucette

That is so beautiful! Thank you for sharing that. I didn't know it...

I guess it is kind of like New Year's Day...so few people attend Mass or Liturgy that day. I don't know if the various Protestant denominations have services that day or not.

What we have in my town, is a yearly interfaith Thanksgiving gathering which is sponsored by a different house of worship each year. My church has hosted it a few times. Each cleric reads prayers, and different choirs sing different hymns of thanksgiving. It is noteworthy to say that the Jewish cantress and cantors from our town have the most AMAZING voices! I think they must be paid professionals. It is a nice and spiritual opportunity for us to gather as Americans of faith, albeit different faiths. It is always a touching service, and a good opportunity for the others to see what you are all about. Last year, our local Episcopalian minister, a young, most sweet and amicable, (the youngest assigned to a parish in the New York diocese) and very pious man, was most interested in seeing our iconography in the church.

In Christ whom we bow down to in thanksgiving,
Alice

Not so long ago for me (and I'm only 31). Growing up my family used to go to Mass every Thanksgiving morning (except my grandmother who stayed behind to 'keep a eye on' the turkey). Granted I'm from SoCal where people are more religious (Hollywood not included) due to the Spanish influence.

I know a few Anglican parishes still have a 'Festal Eucharist' on Thanksgiving.

http://www.saintthomaschurch.org/Music.html

For those scrupulous about fasting, there is a solution - it is possible to have a festive meal within the parameters of the fasting regulations (particularly if one accepts a blessing for fish, wine, and oil). Just how good an idea this is is a matter of opinion.

Fr. Serge

As always, it is best to AYP! (Ask your priest!) Fasting is individually tailored to everyone, and once again, I caution anyone against taking fasting advice online.

Alexandr

Dear Alexandr,

While I thank you for your opinion, you will please note that I concluded my post with 'ask your priest'. Everyone's parish, jurisdiction, tradition, and priest and/or SF are different.

I don't think that anyone is getting 'advice online'. I think that we are discussing different options, and different experiences, and that the bottom line on all discussions is always 'ask your priest'! However, discussions of ideas shouldn't be hindered because of that...unless, ofcourse they are uncharitable.

If your caution were to be taken to an extreme, there would be no religious discussion forums at all! A look at the more religious Orthodox ones such as Monachos will show you that such discussions are greatly valued.

Alice, Moderator

I quite agree Alice, and I was in no way singling your post out. It was just a concession to those new in the Faith to approach fasting as they would any other aspect of Church life. I have followed the conversation with interest in the varied ways different parties approach fasting. I rejoice in the fact that so many are taking fasting seriously!

Alexandr

Ah, the blessing of being on the Old Calendar! Thanksgiving this year is six days before the Nativity Fast begins on 15/28 November! When Thanksgiving occasionally falls in the Fast, we have our Turkey dinner the Sunday before Thanksgiving Day and eat the non-meat foods which abound at the typical American table on the 4th Thursday of November, rejoicing that our Non-Orthodox relatives are our guests and are enjoying the Turkey and gravy we've made for them.

Fr David Straut
St Elizabeth the New-martyr (Russian) Orthodox Church
Rocky Hill, New Jersey
www.saint-elizabeths.org [saint-elizabeths.org]

Welcome to the forum, Father David!

In Christ,
Alice, Moderator

That's the case too at my OCA parish.

-- John