www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Segregation Of The Sexes In Church

The minister???? What office would that be in an Orthodox Church? Is there a translation problem here, or are you trying to be provocative?

Fr David Straut
St Elizabeth the New-Martyr Orthodox Church
Rocky Hill, New Jersey
www.saint-elizabeths.org [saint-elizabeths.org]

Father David, your blessing!

Please reread Etnick's post. He made it clear that this was NO LONGER used as an OCA church.

and YES, Ss. Peter and Paul's Byzantine Catholic Church, Endicott, NY (est. 1919 or so) has spring clips on the right-hand pews.

Jeff

Father, you misunderstood. The church WAS Orthodox but was sold to a Protestant group years ago.

Yes Edward, this is the usual Malankara and Syriac practice.

Was this ever part of the Latin tradition?

Alexis

In a Coptic parish I visited, the women were on the right side and the men on the left side.

I think it segragation is a good idea. Makes the focus on the litergy more-so than the family business distractions. The family can deal with thier life after more of Christ comes in. They should bring it back.......but the church borads will raise hell, people will leave, and the church won't pay the bills.

Yes, but it died off quickly for two reasons:

1.) Imagine trying to organize a church full of Italians in this fashion...

2.) The advent of pews in the 16th century.

I see the men in this thread thinking this is a good idea. But how do the women feel? As a mom who rarely got to pay attention to a sermon/homily without distractions of a wiggly child (before my dh started attending church) ... I think the idea of women on one side with the kids (and all that entails) to be sort of "short changing" the women. We get to deal with the kids wiggles, complaints, diapers, runny noses, etc. While the men on their side get to actually pay attention to their prayers.

Maybe I'm still too 'Latin' or what have you. But I feel that going to Mass or the Divine Liturgy and all of our spiritual growth is a family affair. Splitting up the family for attendance seems to me to be counterproductive.

Am I the lone voice here?

I'm not looking to argue - I'm just curious.

Carole,

I don't like this old tradition, but then again, I am not one of 'the guys'!! LOL!

My family and I always sit together and I like it like that. It is the norm in my jurisdiction and it feels right. I especially like it on holidays where my adult children and mother are along.

As far as small children, it is very hard to really pray when they are in tow...I know alot of traditionalists don't like what I am going to say, but I was quite happy when they started Sunday School and were being taken care of downstairs while I was upstairs at DL.

Regards,
Alice

ALICE:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!!

The one Greek Orthodox parish I have attended was the cathedral in Pittsburgh. At that time, there was no segregation and people mixed together throughout the church.

In Christ,

BOB

A poster asked what families are to do ?

This was clearly the reason why most churches abandoned the custome of separating the sexes.

I.F.

Hi Bob,

I'm sorry if my posts were misunderstood. ALL Greek Orthodox churches in this country AND in Greece are integrated.

ONLY monasteries, and that would be only *some* monasteries (not all of them), segregate.

In Christ,
Alice

In one of my parishes, this practice sort of developed on its own and quickly became the norm. We had a parish of young families and actually most of the mothers seem to prefer it. In my experience men tend to be more "uptight" about their children behaving like little adults then women do -- thus, once the men were "out of the way," the women could relax and then work together more efficiently to collectively watch over the children so that everyone could pray. They also reported that it was freeing not to have to worry about the men behind them "looking" at them in Liturgy if they made a deep bow or a prostration (during the Presanctified). They reported a deeper freedom just to pray without the distractions of worrying about "issues".

Of course, this only worked because we did not have pews. Thus the children were free to move about -- my favorite story is the time the 3-year old came running towards the Holy Doors just when I had turned to bless the people with "Peace be to all." I turned to meet him head-on -- the choir was so amazed that they forgot to sing "And to your spirit."

In terms of church being a "family affair," as a married priest who has always served in missions I would have no idea what you are talking about :-) I (of course) have always served and my wife has always been (in) the choir ... so the children have sort of been "on their own."

Sure was--ask my mother and she'll tell you about being on the "women's side" in her Polish RC parish with my grandmother and aunt, while all my uncles who weren't serving at that mass were on the "men's side." This was in the 1930's. Not sure when it was done away with. I honestly think that this is more of a "Slavic" thing, and a "ritual" thing.