www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Heroic Virtue of Emperor-King Karl of Habsburg-Lorraine

Dear Jose,

I was at another parish then . . . If I knew you'd be there . . .

Your point about identifying the relics is important.

Even though there would be no doubt about the relics, there would still be the formal process in place of identifying them and their location (in this case, Madeira) would figure as part of that process.

The Western Church instituted a very strict protocol in this regard, especially in the aftermath of the Reformation and charges against "relice forgeries."

So to move the Relics of the Venerable Emperor-King would result in questions such as "What if the relics aren't really those of the Ven. Karl?" etc.

Look at the whole issue of the relics of the Servant of God, Christopher Columbus . . .

Alex

Dear Alex:

Sorry we missed each other, we will definitely have to get together and do lunch sometime.

If I can wing it, I will try to bring the guys.

Again isn't it wonderful about the Venerable Servant of God Karl of Austria.

Even though my friends in Madeira would kill me, I hope they return the relics to Austria (or perhaps Hungary).

I know about the mix-up with Christopher Columbus.

What a great guy he must have been, to have gotten two really magnificent tombs.

Now if I had been one of the locals in Hispanola (those hundred or so years ago) and I heard that the hated Spaniards were going to remove the remains of our own hero I would likely have switched the set of remains.

I don't think that it would be too difficult to differentiate the remains of a father and son.

But again who is going to give you permission to examine their set of relics first?

Around and round we go...


defreitas

It will be interesting to see whether the decision is made, once Karl is canonized, to transfer his relics to the crypt in Vienna or whether he will remain in Madeira.

Dear Friends,

An interesting discussion of the proper place for the remains of an Emperor/Saint. But there are other things to consider.

Since Karl was the Apostolic King of Hungary, shouldn't the Church move his relics to Budapest?

Since Halychyna and Transcarpathia were part of the Empire, and the Romanovs had been deposed in Russia in 1917, wasn't Karl the last ruling King of the Ukrainians, Rusyns, etc. in 1918?

To avoid infighting among the Austrians, Hungarians, Portuguese, etc., should not the relics be transferred to St. George's in Lviv?

All Saints are Ukrainian !!!

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

Dear John:



Oddly enough, except for one: San Lorenzo Ruis de Manila!

AmdG

There is a video-recording of the beatification Mass for the Blessed Emperor Charles; it's quite moving - particularly at the end, when Archduke Otto received the Holy Father's blessing. Rumor has it that the Empress Zita will soon be beatified.
Incidentally, the current issue of Eastern Catholic Life has an article on the beatification and mentions the Empress's presence in Pittsburgh for the consecration of Bishop Daniel (Ivancho). Her Imperial Majesty was indeed there, and her presence caused considerabl comment at the time.

Incognitus

Dear Amado,

"San" in Ukrainian means "state of life."

So Lorenzo could have been Ukrainian as well . . .

Alex

Alex:

Could be, and, grudgingly, John, although it is Odd, might be correct!

Amado

Dear Amado,

"Odd" is the Old Slavonic of "from."



Alex