www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Why Orthodox Men Love Church - Frederica Mathewes-Green beliefnet

I agree with you on all points. I often find her articles 'off', and I usually do not like them.

Alice

P.S. What does 'caveat emptor' mean?!?

Caveat emptor = Buyer Beware!

LOL! --should be 'reader beware'!

Finally, he speaks a language I can understand!!!

I second (or it is third?) Alexandr and Alice's comments. "odd" is a good term for much of what Frederica writes.

Joe

I firmly beleive that much of what Frederica writes makes more sense when you begin to understand her experience in the Episcopal denomination and her subsequent witness of that denomination's implosion.

Her angst and bitterness still shine through.

Interesting . . .


-- John

In a defense of Frederica, as a former Episcopalian myself, much of her work is best understood if you are familiar with the death of the Episcopal Church in recent years. Round about 1960 the Episcopal church has made an appalingly incomprehensible attempt to fuse Secular Humanist thought (especially feminism) with traditional Christian formulas. It didn't work. The race to the bottom really picked up speed in 1976 when they ordained as their first woman priest, a feminist lesbian activist who was co president of the GLBT group Integrity.
Things have gotten wierd in the Episcopal Church. You may have heard of the "Clown Litergy" in New York or possibly the Wiccan/Druid celebrations held in the National Cathedral. ALL of these things occured with episcopal approval.
If you grew up in the EO, BC you have absolutely no idea how nuts it is over there. Our Latin Catholic friends have had a little taste but no where to the scale of the Episcopalians.
If you are not squemish and are solidly ensconced in a firm chair google "louiecrew" he is out of Rutgers University. You will get a dose.

God Bless.

Right on, Searching East. I belong to a RC university group and the young men are masculine and fervent RC devotees.Some come from very macho countries and they don't seem to have a problem attending RC services of any kind as long as they are in line with Rome. Matthewes-Green came from a non-practicing RC family, so perhaps she's drawing on the little experience she had as a child.
I've read books in which Orthodox priests complain about the men spending Sunday morning in nearby cafes while the women attend services. It seems that when you hear about someone secretly baptized in Communist Russia it is almost always done by the grandmother, and didn't women pretty much keep the underground church going in Russia? Alexandr, I welcome your corrections if I'm wrong.
That said, as a woman I like the Eastern Christian disciplines and find them challenging and rigurous, but if I were RC I'd keep the fasts and take advantage of all the RC offers that will help draw me closer to Christ-Rosary, confession, fasts regardless of whether the people in my parish did so or not. I suspect that would be just as challenging and rigurous.

The numerous RC saints post 12th century didn't get their by being spiritual softies.I don't see Western Christianity as more feminine and I've even run into devout Protestant men and women who are very disciplined in overcoming passions that keep them from Our Lord and Savior.

I would love to see the look on a 12th century Spanish Catholic male's face after being told that Western Christianity is femininized,!The young RC men mentioned above, both American and foreign, would most likely have the same look on their face.

A footnote, if I may. My own small Eastern Catholic
parish has a large proportion of males, only two of them
of Byzantine background. Those few men who have left us in the
last ten years or so have mostly gone over to Orthodoxy. Female
newcomers are somewhat more likely to leave than are men in my
limited experience. I do not say that this supports Matthewes-
Green's contention.

I, too, find her odd and believe Slavipodvizhnik's diagnosis of "Superconvert" syndrome is correct. Glancing at the only book of hers I have,
"At the Corner of East and Now", I find on p. 116
that she attributes the events of 1054 SOLELY to the
introduction of the "filioque" in the West. I believe it was a
trifle more complicated than that. I don't wish to denigrate the
lady and admire her enthusiasm, but there is more than a touch
of journalistic superficicality in her work.

Indigo is pretty much spot on with her comments. It is and has always been the Babushki/Yia-Yia's who have been the foot soldiers of God. Frederica needs to get out of her ex-Episcopalian Antiochian enclaves and visit some Orthodox Churches. The former protestant parishes are neither the norm, nor indicative of Orthodox practice, but a anomaly of the garbled situation here in America.

Alexandr

Forgive me for disagreeing with the majority view here, but I have been thankful for Frederica Mathews-Green's books and articles. She has been helpful and encouraging to new converts, and she manages to write with a caring connection to those who are considering joining the Orthodox Church or who simply want to know more about it. Would that we all shared her positive attitude and enthusiasm.

Nicole

That would be all well and good if what she writes about pertains to what actually is in the Orthodox Church outside of the limited, ex-protestant parishes that she is familiar with. I am familiar with parishes of that ilk, and they do not hold much in common with mainstream Orthodoxy. I am sorry,but, I cannot share a positive attitude about misperceptions and evangelical daydreams.

Alexandr

Slavipodvizhnik;

I would be interested to read some more specific comments
about what you view as the shortcomings of our American
ex-Evangelical Antioceans in general or of Matthewes-Green
in particular. I hold no candle for either of them, obviously, me
being Catholic, but they are in communion with an Orthodox
Patriarch and to that extent certainly must be viewed as
"really" Orthodox.

Edmac

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