www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Apostolic Nuncio Gives Holy Communion To John Kerry At Abp. Wuerl's Installation

That's not quite the case. The one who procures is automatically excommunicated, without any necessary action by a bishop. To advocate legalized abortion is gravely sinful. A bishop MAY excommunicate the one who advocates, if the situation warrants, but the excommunication is not automatic.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

Father Deacon,

As you know those terms such as Mortal Sin, full consent of will etc are Thomist terms and really belong to the Western Church and scholasticism. It might apply in Kerry's case as he is Roman Catholic but it really does not apply to those Eastern Catholic Christians

Brian,
While the terminology may be Thomist, that language is employed at the level of the universal Church. You will find it in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was intended for all Catholics. If we employ the terminology of the Eastern Fathers, I think we are still going in the same direction on the question of sin. The notion of mortal, v.s. lesser sin is rooted in, I believe, St. John's epistle where he refers to sins which are deadly, and sins which are not deadly (I am at work, and I forget the exact wording, but I remember the core of the message). It could be that we are just talking about semantics.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

This is the Vatican document Steve and I have been alluding to in these discussions, entitled :

"DOCTRINAL NOTE ON SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING THE PARTICIPATION OF CATHOLICS IN POLITICAL LIFE."

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/document.php?n=3

It was issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith (CDF) in 2003 under the signature of the Prefect, then Cardinal Ratzinger.

The USCCB directive is based on this CDF "doctrinal note."

Amadeus,
Thanks. I've only read summaries of this document, before. I downloaded it, and read it over lunch. What really stands out in the document is the responsibility of Catholics involved in political life NOT to succumb to moral relativism. While it upholds the notion that there may be a plurality of ways for Catholics to go on different political questions, it also notes that these particular political prescriptions must never be inconsistent with the Faith, with Natural Law, and the dignity of the human person. All of these Catholic pro-abort politicians, both Democrat and Republican, come up very short in this area. This is where a good, orthodox bishop must provide strong leadership.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

Dear Deacon Robert,

Thank you for your quick response and for the thought evident in your clarification.

I appreciate both.

Steve

Dear Brian,


Nice to talk with you again!

The Scholastic tradition in philosophy and theology is not nor has it been at any time the only approach to reality that is held in the Western Church.

During and after Vatican II, for example, there was and is a great emphasis put on Scriptural Theology. It was awe inspiring for someone raised in the scholastic environment of the pre conciliar church to realize that there are other way of speaking about God, His reality, and His ways of relating to us. Pre counciliar, counciliar, and post counciliar course of studies in the seminary put emphasis on Patristic Theology. The powerful presence and teaching of Eastern and Oriental Catholic Council Fathers(as well as the Orthodox Observers among them) was a living testimony that there are other theological ways that are true too.

All of these experiences with different ways of talkintg about the True One and His works had profound effects on me. A concrete result is the fact that I come here to learn from the East. Doing so has helped me know and appreciate my own tradition better.

One of the concerns that I have, though, is that there seems to be an attempt to return us, in the West, to the pre conciliar way of thinking and talking theologically. I'm praying that this will not lead us back to the notion that there is one monolithic way of "theologizing" or "doctrinizing" or "dogmatizing." It follows from that way of looking at things that anyone who sees things and expresses things in other ways are wrong.

In my opinion the monolithic thinking that makes one approach the only approach in theology has ramifications in how we think and pray and behave toward our brothers and sisters.

A clear example of this kind of thinking and its effects are in the postings here that suggest that the Western Way, especially the pre conciliar Western Way, is the only true Way. The consequences of talking that way to Eastern and Oriental Catholics and Orthodox who disagree are usually swift and clear!

The monolithic way of dealing with things made life comfortable for many in the Western Churches since it appeared that there was one right way of thinking and talking and understanding things. Anyone who thought or taught or understood things or expressed thos things in different words was wrong.

One fact though is often forgotten. Even in the pre conciliar church there were other ways of theologizing.

It's not often noted that the Council was called by a conservative scholastically educated Pope during the time of the pre counciliar church to "throw open a window."

Brain, thanks for your comments. They stirred memories of what I've learned from studying in seminary before, during, and after the Council. Even more they made fresh the experiences of having lived in these interesting times!

(Wasn't there a curse that said simply, "May you live in interesting times?" It rings true!)

I hope to talk with you again soon!

Steve

Dear Amado,

Thanks for the links.

Steve

The Governor of Illinois is Serbian Orthodox. Mr. Blagoevich is far from being pro-life!

I have just caught up with this but some folk do seem to have jumped it boots and all. I was pleased to note that someone thought that the man may not be known by sight to the Nuncio. Also would it have been approriate to make a public fuss at this occasion of the installation of a new Bishop. Instead there was a feeding frenzy of allegations of corruption at the top and threats (yet again) to jump ship and switch churches. It's for the Bishop to follow up if there are problems about the man taking Holy Communion.