www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall WOW: Romney's religion speech

WOW: I just listened to Mitt Romney's speech on religion. It was an impressive speech. I may have to give Mr. Romney a rethink . . .

-- John

you have a link to it?

I would have no problem voting for a Jew, but someone who belongs to a cultic religion still bothers me...

I know that has no bearing on the man's character, and that many Mormons are very, very good wholesome family people with good values, ethics and morals, and I respect them for that, but a heretical cult is still a heretical cult.

I have heard some first hand tales that made me very uncomfortable from fellow Orthodox (whose character I trusted) that visited Salt Lake City and attempted to visit the Mormon temple.

Alice

What bothers me is the claim of being Christian. Yes, they have a Judeo-Christian ethic, but their theology is far too creative and their Book of Mormon is poorly written.

Terry

Here is his speech:

Text: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23830

Video: http://www.breitbart.tv/html/10314.html

The Mormmons do not allow anyone to enter the temple even some Mormons. Anyone is free to go to the regular worship services but a temple visit requires a temple recomend from the bishop. The LDS church says it is sacred not secret. I don't agree with that but I am not LDS. Anyways they try to witness to the tourists who visit the temple. They can be pushy but the church tries to teach the missionaries to be polite. One of my best friends is LDS and I have many friends who are as well. I am also from a Scottish Mormon pioneer family. (We have since left)

The Mormons of today aren't the ones of 100 years ago.

Alice,


I think it is problematic to call the LDS religion a "cult". Surely it was when it started in the 19th century, but many of the typical aspects of a cult no longer apply to the LDS religion.

Note that I do not consider members of the LDS religion as "Christians", nor do I think their faith without serious problems. But I do not think it accurate to call them a "cult".

Just my opinion, of course...

Im not sure if this is on topic, but I have a question. The mormons are considered non-christian because they do not believe in the trinity. The arians did not believe in the trinity but I have never seen them referred to as non-christian. Were converts from arianism rebaptized?
Watch some of the antics of the born again on television and tell me protestants dont have cults.
I would not vote for Mr Romney solely because he is a republican, religion is not a consideration. Though I would vote for Ron Paul in spite of his running as a republican.
Im wondering if the catholic bishops will try to force me to vote for Guiliani even though hes pro-abortion, they seem to be in the republican pocket pretty snugly.

Actually, the Orthodox of the time, such as St. Athanasius, did refer to the Arians as not being Christian.


You have a number of problems in your statement here.

First, the catholic bishops in this country are much more Democrat-leaning rather than Republican-leaning. Just read any of their statements related to political issues - they line up much more with Democrat positions than Republican ones (other than abortion).

Second, some Catholic bishops, such as Burke of St. Louis, have already said that Guiliani should not be given communion due to his pro-abortion stance. I doubt such a bishop would recommend voting for this person.

Third, how can the catholic bishops "force" you to vote for someone? When have they ever even tried to do this?

Mormons rejecting the Trinity is only one of a number of beliefs of theirs which is in conflict with the history of Christianity.

"Watch some of the antics of the born again on television and tell me protestants dont have cults."

Many Protestant leaders have a poorly formed understanding of scripture, which at times is brought to them through their traditions, but most of them intend an honest exegesis of scripture. I don't know what you mean by "cult", or I would respond further.

Dear Friends,

Whether Mormons are true Christians, or a Christic Cult should have no bearing on Mr. Romney's presidential candidacy.

Although I do not plan on voting for him, I have felt bad for him that he even has to defend his religion. I think it is ridiculous. It is wrong. We should be able to evaluate a person's character and credentials on their own merit. If privately one does not vote for Mr. Romney because of discomfort with Mormonism, that is one thing, but it should not be a public issue at all.

Remember, a few years ago, some in congress wanted to bar a Roman Catholic priest from serving as House Chaplain, because to some of the evangelical members of the house, Roman Catholics are not true Christians. Many evangelicals still look on us Catholics and Orthodox as Christic cults, no different from Mormonism. Although that idea is outrageous to me, I have to say, that is what we get when we expect our politicians to wear their religion on their sleeve (incidentally, compared to the theological orthodoxy of the Apostolic Churches- Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental, Church of the East- all of the Protestant Churches are historically heretical, so the intolerance of modern evangelicals toward Catholics or Mormons is amusing to me. Mormon baptism is not recognized by Rome, and most Protestant baptisms are).

Personally, I believe in the separation of Church & state; no good has come out of history from the Church enjoying too much influence and power in civil politics.

Of course, our faith should inform our public values, and we can advocate for the unborn, for life, for the poor, and for peace on the basis of our religion. But let's not set religious litmus tests for candidates. I think it is dangerous, unconstitutional, undemocratic, and un-American.

Mr. Romney should not have his religion made part of the presidential debate. I think it is quite sad.

Blessings,

Lance

I would have no problem voting for a Mormon, as they are known for their integrity. However, putting a Mormon in the White House would give them enormous visibility worldwide and probably aid their proseletizing efforts. Nevertheless, if the race turns out to be between Romney and Clinton, I would vote twice for Mitt if I could!

Here's Jimmy Akin's take on it:

http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2007/12/not-impressed.html

So were the converts from arianism re-baptized?

My husband was born and raised Mormon, went on a mission, etc. I joined too, and we have both since left it. We have our concerns about Mitt Romney. In his speech he says:

"I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers � I will be true to them and to my beliefs."

This is what he covenanted to in the LDS temple, which believing Mormons take very seriously:

PETER: A couple will now come to the alter. (The Witness couple comes forward, and kneels at the altar as before.) We are instructed to give unto you the Law of Consecration as contained in the book of Doctrine and Covenants (The Officiator picks up a copy of the Doctrine and Covenants from the altar, and holds it up in view of all patrons.), in connection with the Law of the Gospel and the Law of Sacrifice which you have already received. It is that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents and everything which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

All arise. (All patrons stand.) Each of you bring your right arm to the square.

You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in this, (The Officiator holds up a copy of the Doctrine and Covenants again.), the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Each of you bow your head and say "yes."

PATRONS: Yes.

PETER: That will do. (All patrons sit down.)

http://www.lds-mormon.com/compare1.shtml

Again, Mormons take the temple VERY seriously, so seriously they keep it secret. You know, my MIL won't even LAUGH outloud because in the temple they promise to "avoid loud laughter..."

We have other concerns, but that's a big one, that we'd like to see him address.