The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Quid Est Veritas, Frank O, BC LV, returningtoaxum, Jennifer B
6,177 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 465 guests, and 112 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,524
Posts417,640
Members6,177
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Friends,

Today a private member's bill to declare April 2nd as "Pope John Paul II Day" in Ontario will be re-introduced by Frank Klees, MPP for Newmarket-Aurora in the Ontario Legislature.

The bill died on the order paper when the House prorogued for the summer in June.

Mr. Klees has a degree from a Baptist seminary (also an honorary Doctorate).

Thousands of petitions in support of this bill have been collected and presented in the Legislature.

With such support and noted willingness among legislators to pass it into law, hopefully it will become law by spring.

Alex

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 33
Member
Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 33
Wow. I wish such things were possible in the US. Judicial activism, secularism, and anti-Catholic bigotry have greatly undermined the ability of the Church or its members to get anything like positive press, let alone positive recognition.

Grant it, O Lord!

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
The bill has been tabled and can be viewed on this website:

www.frank-klees.on.ca [frank-klees.on.ca]

Cheers,

Alex

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,516
O
Forum Keilbasa Sleuth
Member
Forum Keilbasa Sleuth
Member
O Offline
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,516
Originally Posted by NorseRuthenian
Wow. I wish such things were possible in the US. Judicial activism, secularism, and anti-Catholic bigotry
have greatly undermined the ability of the Church or its members to get anything like positive press, let alone positive recognition.

Grant it, O Lord!

I wouldn't be so hard on the USA Norse...
There is a rather large difference between the Federal USA legislative branch and the Canadian Parliament in how bills become law.
In the USA getting a bill passed out of committee is a huge undertaking in itself. If it does ever get to the floor for debate in the Senate and Congress it is lucky. Then once a bill is compromised in so many ways from the original bill, it has amendments/riders attached to it. Then by the time it gets passed it has to go to the bureaucrats to have the law made workable in society. The whole process can take years and a lot of money. Couple that with the fact that bureaucrats often have careers that span many presidential terms. Hearings upon hearings, appeals, and plan implementation on the bill take years.

In a Parliamentary system, let's say the House of Commons, you have several parties. The majority party's leader is the prime minister. I know I'm leaving some out here, Alex will fix me on this. But in other words if the majority party wants a bill passed, it will most likely get passed. Bills do not go under the same draconian process that undermines our process for law making.
Only in rare cases do major bills pass in a fast manner in the USA.
Example. You are a freshman/sophomore congressperson. You are say, Republican. You can often vote on many issues that aren't "republican party-line." Let's put it this way, if the bill is pressing and large and important to the more powerful legislators and let's say the president then you are almost coerced into voting with the party line. So if you are from say, Maryland and you promised your constituents a new highway and the chair of the transportation committee (who would be republican in this case) calls you up and says, "young legislator, vote yes on bill W, remember you want that funding for the highway you promised back home."
But for the most part when a bill even comes out of committee it is re-written many times. I know my post is long, but compare it to USA federal law making.

In Canada/UK if a bill is introduced, it is argued and the put to a vote in a more simplified process. Ever watch CSPAN and see the UK House of Commons debate? You should, it's interesting. But basically it is, "our party wants this bill passed, the legwork has already been done, let's argue about it, and put it to a vote." Alex may be able to key me into the process that happens before a bill is put on the floor in Canada. I am sure they have their committees and studies that take place during the bill writing process.
However in a parliamentary system if you wanted to pass a bill that said "all computer monitors made after 2 Jan 2008 must have a ultraviolet filter in them to help protect peoples' eyes" and the bill passed and got made into law, it would say "all computer monitors made after 2 Jan 2008 will have a ultraviolet filter to protect human eyes.?
If this was introduced in the USA it would take two years to come out of committee, and if it did pass and become law it probably would read something like this;
All computer monitors that weigh between 2.76 pounds and 5.789 pounds that are made the first and fourth monday of alternating months in a factory that has 25 parking spots must place a filter in the computer monitor that protects human eyes from ultraviolet light. The uv filter must be made by company X. Amendments, company A can take private property through eminent domain if they wish to build a retail store or office building and these companies will also get a federal tax break of .45% for 25 years. they will have to offer the landowner 20% of the market value of the land they took through eminent domain. Amendment, government agencies that work in the sphere of national security can have the right to wire-tap cell phones without judiciary approval if the person's has more than three bank accounts. Amendment 355 million dollars to build a highway through state A.

So long story short, it's the legislative differences of why this can happen so quickly in Canada and not in the USA. Only in rare circumstances does a bill get proposed in the USA and go to the senate and house in a fast manner for debate and vote.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,516
O
Forum Keilbasa Sleuth
Member
Forum Keilbasa Sleuth
Member
O Offline
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,516
I might say that I'm not trying to say the Parliamentary system is better than our system or vice versa. I am just showing some differences. Certainly the Parliamentary system has its negatives as well. Bill C-68, I think it is called, in Canada is one such example. The process the bill entailed was only supposed to cost x amounts of dollars to implement, and I remember two years ago it ended up costing SO much and the law was ineffective and the program to conduct what they law said was very flawed and inaccurate.
Also while in the USA the bills can take forever to pass and have horrendous riders attached to them, a lot of people have a lot of say in making the bills. Albeit in these days it is usually those with money and strong well funded lobbyists or a very strong pac/ngo that influences bill writing. Still most of the time it is a comprehensive process that takes into account the opinions and wishes of all political viewpoints.
In my state the governor wants certain laws to be passed concerning that will restrict an amendment that is found in the state constitution and the federal constitution.
He basically wants to punish the law abiding citizens for the wrong doings of criminals using what he wants to ban/control illegally, and on top of it, they obtain these objects illegally.
Last month he went to the judiciary committee in our state and gave a 45 minute speech telling them to mark them and start the bill writing process. Guess what? The judiciary committee knows what the majority of the people in the state want. The governor proposed a three-part bill. Only one point of the three parts was ear-marked for later review by the judiciary committee. The other two were shot down immediately. See this bill would have had to come out of the judiciary committee, which would start its path for debate and vote in the house and senate in the state.
So while our process is more complex and bureaucratically red-taped, it also protects the people from the whims and wants of those in power who don't have the majority in mind.

I'm going to stop now before it seems like I am writing a political science 101 paper. Everyone would fall asleep whilst I write a book here on the various pros and cons of each system.

Last edited by Orthodox Pyrohy.; 12/13/07 09:26 PM.

Moderated by  Irish Melkite, theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0