www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Sign of the Cross and Mass

Someone posted this link on another forum and really it is something I had never given much thought to. Also, I wonder if the same significance is given to it, not in respect, but in meaning. Any ideas?

http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2007/09/st-thomas-aquinas-on-signs-of-cross-in.html

Slava Isusu Khrystu!

I believe that one can never be too reverent at the celebration of Mass/Divine Liturgy. I think that reverence adds to the awesomeness of the Holy Mystery of any religious service. I also believe that our individual deportment in Church should foremost!

Peace,

John Doucette

Dear Pani,

The Sign of the Cross in our liturgy is done in conjunction with the invocation and glorification of the Holy Trinity. The method in the article is connected to a meditation on Christ's Passion and this brings up a fundamentally different emphasis between our Churches.

Alex

Another person calculated the numbers and it varies between 48 and 53 depending on the Mass and Feast.

Dear Dr Eric,

At the back of the new edition of the Jordanville prayer book are the meticulous rules for making the Sign of the Cross, during the Divine Liturgy: Sign of the Cross with bows, with no bows, when not to Cross oneself etc. etc.

I thank Pani Rose for this thread. I didn't know that Latin Catholics still crossed themselves . . .

Alex

At the Anglo-Catholic parish I currently attend, the sign of the cross is still made corporately at:

the beginning of Mass
at the end of the Gloria in excelsis
at the Gospel (small sign of the cross)
at the beginning and end of the sermon
at the end of the Creed
at the absolution following the confession of sin
at the Benedictus portion of the Sanctus
at the elevation of the Host and the Chalice at the consecration
at the words "and be filled with every grace and heavenly benediction" during the canon
at the words of invitation before Holy Communion "The Gifts of God for the people of God"
and at the final blessing

The indications to make the sign of the cross are at the appropriate spot in the texts marked with a "+" This is not to mention privately before and after receiving Holy Communion and during people's private thanksgivings after Holy Communion.

Well I think that is one of the things that the world tries to take away from us as Catholics and Orthodox, saying it is odd or not important. BUT IT IS SO IMPORTANT! We must keep the Cross of Christ before us always. Never forgetting the love that God has poured out for us on that Cross.

Don't remember which or who,(these are not exact words of course) but there was a monk that everytime he passed someone on the road he made the Sign of the Cross blessing himself. When the brothers asked him why, he said simply that each person he meets is Jesus.

So in keeping the Sign of the Cross always before us, we never allow Jesus to get out of our site. Also, blessing ourselves in public with the Sign of the Cross is always the rememberance to others around us that Christ is present in the world.

Yes, reverence is important. How you are reverent is less important, though it is good to understand the reasons for signs of reverence. Anglicans make the sign of the cross at the beginning of the Gospel canticles (Magnificat, Benedicite, etc.) although I have not seen that practice elsewhere.

A greek Orthodox priest once taught me that it is rather presumptuous to make the sign of the cross when the priest blesses you--in essence blessing yourself when the priest blesses you. But the Western custom is to make the sign when receiving a blessing; it this case it is not considered "blessing oneself."

There seems to be even more variation in this sign than just right-to-left or left-to-right. This should be an interesting discussion.

John,

What is the 'small' Sign of the Cross?

Dear Pani,

This is when RC's make a small Sign of the Cross on their foreheads with their thumbs or index fingers - also on their lips and heart before the Gospel is read.

This was possibly the original form of the Sign of the Cross during the early days of fierce imperial Roman persecution of Christians

After the Church arose from the catacombs, the larger form of the Sign was adopted - at least as stated in one article I once read.

Alex

Pani Rose,

I see John K is offline, and I can answer your question. It is the signing, with the thumb backed by the index finger, of the forehead, lips and heart, each with a small sign of the Cross (that is, in the immediate area being touched). At the Gospel the priest or deacon, while signing himself in this way, prays: "May the Lord be + in my mind, and + on my lips, and + in my heart, that I may worthily and fittingly proclaim his Holy Gospel." The Congregation makes the "small" Sign of the Cross with him, but does not repeat the words out loud.

Best,
Michael

Dear Michael,

Is the Little Sign of the Cross not also made with the words, "O God come to my assistance, O Lord make haste to help me" at the beginning of the Hours?

Alex

Alex,

I don't remember. It is used at the very beginning of the Day's Hours, before the Invitatorium, with the words: "Lord, open my lips; and let my cry come unto Thee." (I believe, though, that one only blesses the lips, not the mind and heart also.)

Accompanying the words you mention (used to begin all the other Hours) it may the the Little one or maybe the Big one.

But, somewhere I saw that you are a Benedictine, and I defer to whatever the Benedictines say regarding the traditional liturgy, especially the Hours!

The Big Sign of the Cross is made, in the West also, at the two Canticles someone mentioned, the Benedictus and the Magnificat, as well as during Compline, the Nunc dimitis.

+Whew!

Best,
Michael

For the Roman Office, the sign of the Cross is made on the lips, Open my lips + O Lord, to praise Your Holy Name...

james

Dear Michael,

Just almost an oblate of the Byzantine tradition. I see in the Benedictine Hours, however, that the little Sign of the Cross is made on the forehead at that versicle and then the large one for the Gloria following it.

In fact, the little Sign of the Cross that persists in the Latin tradition preserves that practice from the very early days of the persecuted Church of Christ!

PAX

Alex