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Dec 29th, 2019
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OrthoDixieBoy Member
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Fr Serge,
The biblical justification used for baptism by sprinkling is often "Thou shalt sprinkle me with hyssop, and I shall be cleansed: thou shalt wash me, and I shall be made whiter than snow." Psalm 51:7
Also the numerous references in the Pentateuch to cleansing by the sprinkling of blood.
And then there is the reference in the book of Hebrews that refers to the Israelites being "baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea". One must ask, how much water actually touches the body when immersed in a cloud? Or in the sea (presumably in the passage on DRY GROUND through the Red Sea.) At the most one can suppose a little mist from the the stacked water touched their brows.
Even if one does not agree with their application of these passages of Sacred Scripture, one must admit they are not stupid. No?
Jason
Last edited by RomanRedneck; 12/14/07 02:49 PM.
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Baptism by pouring and "baptism" by sprinkling:
Baptism by pouring (infusion) is what it sounds like: one pours some water on the neophyte (almost always on the head) while pronouncing the necessary words. This is sometimes called "clinical Baptism" in Orthodox circles, and except for the Old-Ritualists is considered valid, especially when done in emergency (such as a baby in imminent danger of death, in a hospital where there is no possibility of immersion). Even the Didache recognizes this practice, although good usage demands that it should clearly be the exception, not the rule.
"baptism" by sprinkling occurs, if at all, among certain Protestants who don't have much of an idea about sacraments in the first place. One might, for example, take a rose (cut, of course), dip the rose in the water, shake the rose gently over the infant's head, and then, with a theatrical flourish, present the rose to the proud mother. Or one might, if presented with a number of neophytes, sprinkle some water over the crowd (and hope that at least a drop or two will hit each person, I guess). The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church will have nothing to do with such practices, which have neither theological nor mystagogical foundations - or even etymological foundations - this is not the meaning of "baptism" in Greek. One does not wash anything by sprinkling a couple of drops of water on it.
By the way, I did not make up that rose business!
Fr. Serge Father bless! I can attest to the rose baptisms. I worked at a florist during high school and occasionally on Saturday mornings, a dear little lady, who always placed the flower orders, from the local Congregational Church would come in for one white rose. The florist asked her one day: why only one white rose? She then went on to explain that the minister used it to baptize the baby/person by dipping it in water and sprinkling it over them. It was then presented as a keepsake memento. John K
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Baptisms by sprinkling aren't considered valid by the Catholic Church, Alexis, that's not necessarily the case. I find that this is a common misconception among Catholics and Anglicans. From Attwater's A Catholic Dictionary (Nihil Obstat 1946, by the Censor deputatus of the Archdiocese of Westminster): ASPERSION. i. A valid but illicit (q.v.) manner of baptizing, i.e., by sprinkling the head with water. It was allowed in the Celtic church.
ii. Any sprinkling with holy water. Here's a more modern source: http://www.catholic.com/library/Baptism_Immersion_Only.aspGenerally, anyone claiming to be baptized, but where it is suspect that they may not have been validly baptized is "conditionally baptized". Most of the problems these days with baptism have to do with not using the correct formula i.e. " I baptize thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost [or Spirit]. Amen." Some people are 'baptized' solely in the name of Jesus, or more often among liberal Protestants in the name of the "Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier", which are clearly not valid formulas.
Last edited by Byzantophile; 12/14/07 03:49 PM.
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Byzantophile, It seems that baptism using the aspergilium is valid, but illicit, if the water flows down the head. Apparently if the water flows, it's valid, but still illicit. No flow, no go.  Alexis
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It seems that baptism using the aspergilium is valid, but illicit, if the water flows down the head. Apparently if the water flows, it's valid, but still illicit. No flow, no go. LOL. Nice blurb. This makes one think that it would have to be mighty cold (or hot=steam) in the church for the water not to flow.
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Once ambient water is turning to steam, you're a bit too late for baptism . . . 
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I had been baptized previously by pouring, but when I converted the decision was made to follow the full process and I was baptized by triple immersion.
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How would one go about "proving" many years later, that the water did or did not flow - or for that matter even hit the infant at all?
I hate to cast aspersions (pun intended!) on anyone's baptism, but sprinkling really does not do. As for the rose routine - when did you last use a rose to wash anything?
I take it for granted that the thorns have been removed!
Fr. Serge
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I am quite surprised about the testimonies I have read here at the forum.
Here is mine. I am from a city which is quite used as a holiday place, a favourite place for weddings for example and when I was doing my social service at the end of highscool I worked for the Catholic Diocese as a translator. So, I had to deal with mixed couples who were going to get married, one part being Mexican, the other being American.
I saw about 5 cases and in all but one (where both of them were Catholics) the American part had to receive Baptism-Chrismation-Communion in order to convert to Catholicism. The priest in charge explained that with the exception of some Anglicans and Lutherans, it's the policy to receive most converts from Protestantism (especialy from those groups that originated in the States: Evangelicals, Baptists, etc) by baptism because it's not possible to prove that the other baptism was performed correctly and that the minister held an orthodox basic Christian doctrine.
This was regardless of the way the person was Baptized.
The Orthodox Church (at least here) also has a similar policy recognizing as valid the baptism of Lutherans and Anglicans.
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Regarding the last posting, this air baptism is an EXTREME form of last resort emergency Baptism and is to be avoided if any water is possible to Baptize the infant with. I'm sure that our AHOS students are learning in Priestly Formation / Praxis that any Baptism (even if by a layman) uses water whenever possible.
Even in Communism, kitchen sink baptisms used water when it was available. Please Brothers and Sisters, let's not have this "air baptism" discussion grow a life of its own that it doesn't deserve.
Christ Is Among Us! Indeed, He Is And Ever Shall Be!
Just my ... Three Cents.
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Regarding the last posting, this air baptism is an EXTREME form of last resort emergency Baptism and is to be avoided if any water is possible to Baptize the infant with. I'm sure that our AHOS students are learning in Priestly Formation / Praxis that any Baptism (even if by a layman) uses water whenever possible.
Even in Communism, kitchen sink baptisms used water when it was available. Please Brothers and Sisters, let's not have this "air baptism" discussion grow a life of its own that it doesn't deserve.
Christ Is Among Us! Indeed, He Is And Ever Shall Be!
Just my ... Three Cents. I am reposting this for you: Clinical Baptism In the event an unbaptized infant is near death, a priest should be called immediately for a clinical baptism. If time is of the essence, however, and the priest is unable to arrive in time, an Orthodox lay person, or any other Christian, may baptize the infant by sprinkling Holy Water on the infant or by raising the infant up in the air three times while saying, "The Servant of God (name) is baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. http://www.saintmarkboca.net/index.cfmpage=parish_information_baptismsIf you reread the Greek Orthodox church website article I printed on this thread, you may realize that you are overreacting a bit. I don't see any indication that the following has occured: ... let's not have this "air baptism" discussion grow a life of its own that it doesn't deserve. Thank you. Alice, Moderator
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There are many Orthodox Christians who consider only immersion to be the only legitimate form of baptism, although they -- in a pinch-- will recognize a Trinitarian baptism. Most converts' baptisms are recognized. A number of years ago I believe Paul Meyendorff did an article on the history of the sacraments reception between the RCC and the EOC. If I remember correctly, he concluded the sacrament of baptism was considered valid or invalid depending on the status of relations between the two churches. Please correct me if I am wrong about the content of this article.
Last edited by johnzonaras; 12/15/07 04:56 PM.
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I should clarify my last statement. Many Orthodox believe only immersion is the proper type of Trinitarian baptism and equating pouring over a baptismal font with sprinkling.
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