www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Women in bid to become ordained

Dear Joseph,

Actually, "Womyn."

I don't use it myself.

Alex

Dear Dave,

I disagree. I am prepared to give these "Womyn" ( or is it "Womyns" ? ) 100% credit for these events.

Certainly neither The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, nor the Church would claim credit for this.

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

Whether they do or not, the story is fishy!

Brothers and Sisters:

I get anxious when I reply on this site because I always seem to ruffle everyone's feathers.....but, here I go.

For over 26 years now, the Episcopal Church has dealt with women first as deacons and then as priests and I have had the pleasure of training a number of them for my Diocese (Episcopal Diocese of Mississippi).

In the beginning I was not so sure that women should be ordained and I used all the arguments that everyone always uses.........but as I began to see the tremendous effect they had on ministry within my own parish and Diocese, I found that I could accept and support their ministry.

These women that we're addressing on this site are stepping out because they feel called. Are they right? I can't speak for Roman Catholicism but I can tell you that it's been right for the
o v e r w h e l m i n g majority of the Episcopal Chruch. Who's to say that the Spirit is not moving in your church today?

Just a thought..........and plese don't beat me up too badly for expressing an opposing view.


Fr. Mike Dobrosky (The Very Reverend)
grew up at St. Nicholas in Lorain, Ohio

Dear Fr. Mike...if they are called to minister to God's word in the Catholic Church, surely they ought to begin by respecting the Canons of that Church? If they want, they can become monastics. No other option is available to them at this point, nor, hopefully, will it ever be. As priests in the Roman Catholic Church, they must remain celibate. Therefore, the celibacy of monasticsm surely isn't the stumbling block. What IS is obedience. Should someone who will not keep the Canons, and begins by taking an extraordinarily self-willed approach to things be said to have received a Call?

Gaudior, who feels that if it was recieved, it was a deception of the Evil One

Gaudior:

I hear your concern. Women in the Episcopal Church were ordained deacons because the Canon Law was changed. They (and a group of bishops) challenged the church when they were ordained as priests....and eventually the Church changed the canons to accommodate them.

Was that right? Who knows? My own reading of history is that sometimes someone has to stand up and challenge the authorities of the day, i.e., Martin Lutheran..........and I don't think that was such a bad thing.

Blessings to you in your ministry.


Fr. Mike

Sorry, I meant Martin Luther!


Fr. Mike

The net result of that, though, is that they are no longer in canonical violation, and the motives attributed to a young lady seeking the ministry in an Episcopalian church cannot be said to be the same as those of someone sneaking off to a river somewhere to confound the very authority they claim to want to serve! However, the theology behind "men only" in the Apostolic Churches is sufficient to keep this from happening in those churches.


Gaudior, saying: It's all about attitude!

Brothers and Sisters:

Awhile back, there was a thread that compared the way the Western and Eastern Churches look at the passing of Apostolic orders.

From the stand point of the Eastern Churches, as I understand those posts and related references, a bishop cannot pass Apostolic orders except within the context of communion with his fellow bishops and within the discipline of his own Church. So, from the Eastern point of view, this whole event is a non-starter and a non-event. Am I not correct here?

The problem comes from the Western understanding of orders that sees a bishop able to confer orders validly simply because he himself has them, though the conferring may be illicit.

Maybe this is a good starting point for a common agreement between the Apostolic Churches. I propose that for orders to be seen as valid, canonical, licit (pick your term or terms) both Western and Eastern critieria would have to be met. A bishop would have to have valid orders himself and he could only exercise them within the communion of his own Church: in full communion with all his brother bishops. So no extra-canonical, vagante or mail-order "orders" would be considered to be part valid, canonical, licit in the future of the Church.

BOB

QUOTE]Originally posted by Fr. Mike:
Sorry, I meant Martin Luther!


Fr. Mike [/QUOTE]

Hi Mike,
RE: Lutheran vs Luther...

Your slip is significant. Actually from my understanding of history Martin Luther did not originally wish to leave Catholicism, but wished to reform it. So he didn't really start Lutheranism.

His followers were the ones who started Lutherainism and since then were and have been called "Lutherans."

My 2 cents,

Porter...who does not wish to be ordained.

A female priesthood is a long way off for Byzantine Catholics. Someday our bishops will stop discriminating against women and do what is right.

A female priesthood is impossible in the Catholic Church because she has definitively decreed that she has no authority to ordain women. Even if a validly ordained Bishop were to try the ordination would be invalid because he would be 'ultra vires'.

Two points. Anglican orders are not valid because the words of their ordination rubrics were altered at the Reformation and thus valid sucession ceased. There cannot be apotolicity without valid succession. As for Luther, when I was studying him I ruled that he was on a crash course with the Church from 1511 when he first started teaching 'Sola Fide'.

It concerns me that anyone thinks the Church is "discriminating" against women because it doesn't permit them to become priests. But in a way it's understandable, because too often we've allowed the vocation of priest to be described in terms that make it sound like just another job, or career path.

What's needed is a clear explanation of what the priesthood really is - then perhaps it will be easier for people to understand why it's not open to women.

Slava Isusu Christu!

I have had a few female Episcopal clergy friends who were some of the most awesome witnesses of Christ's love. My position on this matter is defacto of our Church. However, Eastern Christians teach that the Holy Spirit can mysteriously work as He so desires: so I would not rule out the possibility of Grace in their ministry, but that is up to God to decide. Byzantine Christians should always dialogue and befriend people of all religious traditions with a sense of love and understanding. Our Church is plagued with a siege mentality: because converts think that is what we are all about. But, the reality is that Christian cooperation with clergy of all Christian denominations is healthy and natural for American people. I really think the Byzantine Catholic Church should have convert classes that focus on being Eastern in a American context.

Robert

I'm sure some Episcopal clergy do a fine job, as do clergy in other denominations. But I think we often confuse social skills, empathy, even warmth and fuzziness with Christ's love. These can, in the proper circumstances, be wonderful qualities for people to have. However, Christ's love is often a tough and demanding love. It's not for the frail or faint of heart.