www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Should Orthodox Churches in the West celebrate Dec. 25 X-mas?

I would like to ask all Orthodox posters if they think it would be better to celebrate Christmas on December 25th? If most school vacations are geared around the Dec. 25th holiday, would it be better to celebrate the Nativity at that time?

S'Nami Boh!

Ung

No.

Dear Ung,

I would love it if everyone celebrated the feast of the Nativity on January 7th.

But when even my old calendarist Orthodox relatives celebrate the feast with their children who are home from school on the 25th - what can one do?

And so many students I have the privilege to discuss religious matters with tell me that while their parents are definitely "old calendarists" - yet everyone has to work and make a living etc.

If parents won't or can't make the effort to celebrate on the 6th and 7th of January, then what is worse - to celebrate on the 25th or not celebrate at all?

I am asking, not telling.

Alex

I don't have a choice. The OCA celebrates the Nativity on the 25th. My father however, a lifelong Greek Catholic, remembers Christmas on the 7th when he was a child in the late 30's early 40's.

No.

a) the "problem" of children in school - schools are required to permit the children to take major religious days off. I suggest a letter from the parish priest to the school - the letter should be cosigned by one or both of the child's parents.

b) the "problem" of adults who must go to work: look again. Both the law and labor union contracts recognize the right to take a certain number major religious days off. If need be, you'll find that the nearest rabbi can provide information pertinent to your particular location (Jews do not go to their work-places on Day of Atonement).

c) for those working in "informal" situations, it is often possible to arrange a swap with workers who celebrate 25 December - they will appreciate it if you will cover for them, and they are likely to be willing to cover for you on 7 January.

d) in some places (such as Dublin) the public transportation system shuts down on 25 December, which would make it seriously difficult for Orthodox faithful to come to Church on that day, since few of our faithful live in walking distance of the Church.

e) if you are determined to try to do something on 25 December, name your next parish for Saint Spyridon of Trimiphunt. I will gladly wish you a joyful feast of Saint Spyridon.

Fr. Serge

There are Greek Catholics in the West that celebrate Christmas on January 7th. My parish, Pokrova, in Parma Ohio does exactly this and I don't think that they should change to December 25th. Most Ukrainian Catholic parishes in Canada that I can think of celebrate on Jan 7th as well.

May I take the time to remind people that the majority of Greek Catholics worldwide celebrate Christmas on January 7th.

Monomakh

I would like to remind everyone that all (Eastern) Orthodox Christians (as well as all Latin and Greek Catholics) celebrate the Nativity of the Lord on 25 December!!!! The question is, when is December 25th?

The 7th of January for Orthodox Christians and Greek Catholics is the Synaxis of St John the Forerunner! The question is, when is January 7th?

Fr David Straut

Our kids get a pre filled out form from our priest, so it's an excused absence from school. I just take a vacation day, it's not a big deal.

I personally am really enjoying the January 7 date. This is my first year on the Julian calendar and my folks are Latin Catholics and I'm now Orthodox. I got off work on the 25th, so I went to visit my parents and I was sooo happy for a day to sleep in and relax. Everyone was so nuts about Christmas, but I didn't pay much bother.

Now, I've had 2 weeks to focus on the Nativity and I'm ready to celebrate it with prayer and thanksgiving, with no presents or dinners or any other junk attached to it. I'm thankful for it!

And I told my boss I wasn't coming in because it was Christmas. No problems there at all. I had to take a personal day, but I won't complain. I'll take another for Good Friday, too.

I'm sure that others here know more of the story than I do, as to the sequence of events, but some basic things are known. The Church long ago set December 25th as the date of the Nativity feast. A few days after the solstice, to herald the coming of the newborn Light.

Pope Gregory decided that the calendar (not the date) needed to be adjusted, so he ordered the change, for the western Church. The Protestants evantually followed, although it took England about 100 years.

The solstice is the solstice, timed as a consequence of the Creator's design of the solar system. Our calendars are the imprecise calculations of men.

Which calendar is right? I would say none, as they are only as true as the men who make them up.

Which is closer to the Creator Lord's creation? I would say the one that most consistently maintains its relationship to the time of the year when it was established.

A calendar that is 13 days off from its original celestial cycle has gone astray. Half a lunar cycle; one sixth of a season. When will it be 14 days off? Or has it been fudged to keep it 13 days off? Either way, WHY?

That said ... I think Papa Benedict should decree that, in order to reduce scandal in the Church, henceforth the Old Calendar should be observed by all of the Church for the Nativity of our Lord.

Not because it is celestially correct, but because it would separate the Church from the commercialism of modern Christmas. And the Protestants would have a choice to make --- stay commercial --- or follow Rome.

As to the time of Pascha, I understand that even less.

It's basically the same for Easter, pull the kids out for Good Friday and take the day off, plus additional time during Holy Week when you can.

Dear AMM,

OK, but that isn't happening in the lives of so many young EC's I have met and talked to - their parents want January 7th but go to work on that day anyway.

What people should do, and what they really do, are, well, you know . . .

Alex

Sure, and I'm certainly guilty of falling short in many areas as well. Holy days are hard to get to, etc. Priests will usually tell you attendance at Vespers and Matins is bad and so on. It's just reality.

Christmas in my opinion should stay where it is on the traditional Orthodox calendar. It just makes sense to me when using the Eastern Paschalion, and I simply just prefer it that way. I can understand some people have obligations they can't get out of, and that the date presents difficulties; but it doesn't seem like a lot to ask to put things aside for a couple of the major feast days during the year and devote those days to going to church. If people advocate keeping the day, but don't go to church, I'm sorry but they're just hypocrites.

I do celebrate the 7th of January as Rizdvo . The commercialism of Christmas is left for the 25th of December with all the trimmings of a a Canadian Christmas. However for the last 20 years I've always taken a personal day for Jan 6 and Jan 7 (hey someone has to cook). The parish I attend is one of 2 UGCC in the city that follow the new calendar -but due to an influx of new immigrants they have had to now start over the last 10 years celebrate Christmas Liturgy on Jan 7 and also have Pascha Liturgy on the Old Calendar all only in Ukrainian. For the last 10 years my daughter attended the parish day school which was basically empty functioning on Jan 7. This year at a Latin rite high school she is encountering what we have done all our lives. At first she wasn't sure if she wanted to take the day off, going to midnight mass and then to school in the morning was her solution . She is very happy with her decision to celebrate with the entire family on Monday and to go carolling with her schoolmates towards the end of the week.

The UGCC I attend celebrated Christmas 12/25/07 (2 liturgies, one in English and 1 in Ukrainian) and they're also celebrating it with a Hierarchical Divine Liturgy on Monday 1/7/08--it'll be my first and I'm curious to see how many are in attendance. Also, it's only being held in Ukrainian (no English Liturgy for 1/7).

Glad