www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Kissing the bishop's hand at the Dvine Liturgy

Why the altar servers kiss the bishop's hand whenever give him some stuff or receive it from him, and why they don't do the same with a priest?

Hmmm - as far as I know they should

But then - we have no servers Though I have seen it done elsewhere

Where is it exactly that servers do not kiss the priest's hand when giving him something or taking something from him? I have been Orthodox for twenty-five years and a priest for twenty, and have never seen it not done.

I have been serving with a deacon for the last year. When serving with a deacon, it is usually the deacon who hands things and takes things from the priest, kissing his hand when he does so. When a server hands something to or takes something from the deacon, the server does not of course kiss the deacon's hand. Perhaps the servers were used to having a deacon serving and so do not realise that they must kiss the priest's hand?

Fr David Straut

Bless, Father!

Could you give a full description of how one is to approach a priest and ask for his blessing in everyday life?

Alex

My understanding is that kissing the priest's hand is more Russian...the Greeks tend to not do it (although in my experiences there are a few who do) and many of the Greek Catholics have not adoped this custom but I don't think it can be said it is definitely done or it's not done...hope that helps with something as clear as mud

In regard to kissing the Bishop's hand, this has been a tradiion that has carried over since many have been taught that one should kiss the episcopal ring...

In every Orthodox service I've ever seen, when something is handed to or received from the priest, the hand is kissed by the server/subdeacon/deacon. Also, I've never seen the kissing of the priest's hand not done when asking for his blessing. This is in the OCA.

Timothy the newly-illumined

Sorry, I don't know anything about an episcopal ring in the Orthodox Church. Please explain.

In traditional Roman Catholicism (i.e., not in the standard New Sacraments of the past 40 years), this was done not just with the bishop, but with the priest as well.

Is it done with priests as well in the Byzantine tradition, or is it just relegated to bishops?

Alexis

Having served in Athens any number of times, I can testify that kissing the hand of a Priest or Bishop is absolutely commonplace, provided only that the Priest or Bishop is recognizably dressed. I once arrived in Athens in the middle of a taxi strike. In less than a minute a total stranger walked up, kissed my hand, and volunteered to take me wherever I was going.

The episcopal ring is rarely seen in Orthodox usage. Metropolitan Orestes (Chornock) wore one; his successor Bishop John sometimes wore one. Otherwise it would be most unusual.

Among Greek-Catholics I once noticed a letter to the editor of Le Lien from some lunatic, complaining that the practice of not wearing an episcopal ring deprived the faithful of the indulgence granted for kissing the episcopal ring!!!! The editor of Le Lien patiently explained that if one was worried about it, one could gain precisely the same indulgence by kissing the hand of the Bishop or the Priest. I suspect that the editor then made himself a stiff Arabic coffee and drank it slowly, wondering what the next madman would come up with.

In the diaspora (both Greek-Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) one unfortunately can encounter priests and even bishops who will jump through flaming hoops rather than allow anyone to kiss their hands. On one occasion with such a character I apologized, with the words "excuse me; I thought you were a priest!"

Catherine Doherty, of holy memory, for most of her life always knelt down and asked the blessing of any Priest or Bishop, and kissed his hand in response. She finally gave up and began asking the blessings only of those Priests and Bishops whom she already knew. But on one hilarious occasion, she knelt down and asked a blessing, which the priest gave with visible reluctance - when she went to kiss his hand he pulled it back in horror. Catherine got up off the floor, looked him square in the face, and said "Who the [expletive deleted] do you think you are? IT WASN'T YOUR HAND THAT I WANTED TO KISS!" Catherine later regretted having given way to anger, but my personal opinion was that the offending priest got at least a taste of what he deserved.

Archbishop Joseph (Raya) of most holy memory for many years did not wear a ring. He finally gave in - because since he wasn't wearing a ring and people knew that he did not spend money on himself, he was accumulating a ridiculous collection of episcopal rings as gifts from friends who mistakenly thought that he didn't have one! So he picked an unimpressive ring from this collection and wore it as rarely as possible.

I once had a Priest with me when I was visiting Ukraine. This particular priest had been ordained for seven years and had never once blessed anybody! I had to show him how to do it, since in every church we entered the faithful were queuing up to ask blessings. I felt like asking him what he did for a living.

Selah

What is an episcopal ring? Is that a Roman Catholic tradition?

Well, I spent the first 16 years of my Orthodox life (and 12 years as a priest) in the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese and it was certainly the custom there for servers to kiss the priest's hand when handing him something or taking something from him. They say that Antiochians follow Greek practise (though Antiochians maintain that theirs is a practise unique to themselves.)

My observation of Greeks has definately been the same, though admittedly my experience with Greeks has been the more pious, monastery-centred variety. I have only celebrated the liturgical services in a few Greek churches (but all of them were in the Greek Archdiocese, by the way - not Old Calendarist Greeks.)

I will say that Russian laity are much more universally apt to kiss the priest's hand while kissing the cross, receiving antidoron, or after being annointed. In my Antiochian parish it was also nearly universal, though I know that there were other Antiochian parishes where this was not the case. In my experience, in ordinary Greek parishes it is also a minority of lay folk who kiss the priest's hand while receiving antidoron.

I have no experience with Greek Catholics.

Fr David Straut

In the fullest form, still often followed when asking a Bishop's blessing, one approaches the Bishop or priest, bows from the waist touching the floor with one's right hand (without making the Sign of the Cross first), straightens up and holds out ones hands - right hand crossed over the left - and asks "May I have your blessing?" A Russian priest will then always make the Sign of the Cross over the person, a Greek priest may simply place his right hand in the hands of the petitioner. When the blessing is imparted,one kisses the right hand of the Bishop or priest who gave it.

This is often shortened a bit by ommitting the bow (or greatly reducing it) and simply holding out ones out ones hands with the right hand crossed over the left. It being obvious what one wants, the blessing is given as above, and the blessing hand kissed.

In my days at St vladimir's Seminary, I remember Archbishop Peter (L'Huillier) of the OCA castigating seminarians when they approached him for a blessing, making the Sign of the Cross on themselves before bowing from the waist. He would proclaim in his French accent, "I am not an holy icon!" or "I am not a holy relic!"

Fr David Straut

Ditto.

Dear Father David,

Bless!

With all due respect, the above statement shocked me! In my experience, ALL the laity kisses the priest's hands when receiving antidoron!

(Admittedly, very few laity in the U.S. kiss the priest's hand in casual greeting outside of monasteries).

In what area of the country, pray tell, did you experience this strange phenomenon?!?

Respectfully,
In Christ our Lord,
Alice

Dear Alice,

O Kyrios.

I am delighted to hear that my experience may not be normative.

I preface my remarks by saying that most of my experience with Greek churches has been in monastic settings, where indeed everyone would kiss the priest's hand while receiving antidoron. Also every Greek who has come to the parishes which I have Pastored has been, without exception, very pious.

Most of my experience in Greek parishes was over a decade ago when I was serving in the Antiochian Archdiocese. When I said minority, I meant less than 50% - not a small minority. But it is very possible that I am not remembering correctly.

The last Greek Church I was in was this summer. It was a parish in a largely vacation community on the lower Jersey Shore (I am not being more specific to avoid undue scrutiny). I was very kindly invited by the Priest to distribute the antidoron at the end of the Sunday Liturgy. Again, I would say that less than half of the people, though perhaps it was as many as half, kissed the hand of the priest when receiving the antidoron. However, it must be said, the state of dress of the majority of the congregation leads me to think that they may not have been churchly people. The older people in my (Russian) parish would have had to reach for the digitalis to prevent heart attack if they had seen people in shorts and beachwear coming into an Orthodox Church, let alone receive Holy Communion.

Fr David