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I understand that the Orthodox still see wednesday and friday as days of abstinence. It seems that Eastern Catholics are encouraged to maintain their traditions as much as possible. Yet in my rite we seem to only mention the suggestion to observe Friday as a day of penance. My question is if it is common in trying to maintain tradition that Eastern Catholics could voluntarily also observe on Wednesday even if not necessarily taught to? Should an Eastern Catholic person be enocuraged to observe similar principles that the Orthodox do regarding fast days if they wanted to be living the fullness of their tradition?

Apparently what I learned from Theophan/Bob, until just a century ago Wednesday (as well as Friday, obviously) was a day of abstinence for Latins as well, until an indult by the U.S. Bishops in 1895. The reasons seemed to be something about needing their strength since most Catholic men worked long hours in physically demanding jobs back then.

Alexis

In my parish we don't have to follow the rigors of a monastic fast,but we're encouraged to observe the same days of abstinence and fasting as the Orthodox do.

Dear Friends,

Eastern Catholics should observe ALL the fasts that are prescribed in the Orthodox East.

That the Latin West seems to have developed a lackadaisical attitude toward fasting - not a good thing.

(And as a diabetic I know there are lots of ways to maintain one's energy and need for protein other than from animal meat).

Wednesdays and Fridays were originally observed by all Christians as fast days (Wednesday being the fourth day when Judas went to the Jewish elders and thus is the beginning of the Passion of Christ, with Friday its consummation).

This two-day, weekly fast was laid down by the Apostles themselves, in accordance with their tradition, by the Mouth of Christ Himself.

When Rome moved the Wednesday fast to Saturday, it was actually chastised by the Eastern Churches for doing so (and this within an Ecumenical Council, I believe).

St Seraphim of Sarov himself told his spiritual children to have nothing to do with those who did not observe the Fasts of the Church.

And, as Orthodox spiritual manuals are wont to remind us, no one was ever saved without fasting.

Alex

As Alex says, Wednesdays and Fridays are fast days (the week after Easter and after Pentecost being an exception)--and days of abstinence.

When a major feast or a feast of Christ or the Theotokos (i.e., a feast of class 1, 2, or3) falls on a Wednesday or Friday, the fast is annulled, and the abstinence mitigated--usually by one or two degrees. (For an example, see: https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Main/19032/Number/247403#Post247403 ).

It is in the Apostolic Constitutions (c. 380 AD; book 7, sec. 2, XXIII, v. 108), that we find our instruction and definition of Wednesday and Friday fasts recorded. The relevant excerpt follows.

"XXIII. But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites; for they fast on the second and fifth days of the week. But do you either fast the entire five days, or on the fourth day of the week [Wednesday], and on the day of the Preparation [Friday], because on the fourth day the condemnation went out against the Lord, Judas then promising to betray Him for money; and you must fast on the day of the Preparation, because on that day the Lord suffered the death of the cross under Pontius Pilate. But keep the Sabbath, and the Lord's day festival; because the former is the memorial of the creation, and the latter of the resurrection. But there is one only Sabbath to be observed by you in the whole year, which is that of our Lord's burial, on which men ought to keep a fast, but not a festival. For inasmuch as the Creator was then under the earth, the sorrow for Him is more forcible than the joy for the creation; for the Creator is more honourable by nature and dignity than His own creatures. "

And to remind me, to fast on a wednesday would mean basically to avoid meat dairy and wines and wednesday means from sundown tuesday night to sundown wednesday night. The problem for me, regaridng Friday is that I am still technically Latin Rite, so I am required to observe my Friday penance (which I know can be different things) from midnight to midnight. This makes me unsure of beginning on thursday at sundown if I know it will canonically extend for me until midnight the next day.
Anyway, I will figure something out with some more personal advice. Or maybe wait until changing rites (if I do) to figure this out.

Although it is true in the Eastern Church that the liturgical day begins and ends at sundown (or begins at Vespers and ends with the Ninth Hour), fasting does not follow this pattern in the East. Fasting is from Midnight to Midnight. Common sense will tell you that if fasting began at sundown, people would time their evening meal around it. Human nature being what it is, except in the Fasting Seasons, no calendar day would free from animal products!

You will meet people (usually converts) who staunchly maintain that fasting begins and ends at sundown on Wednesday and Fridays. But they are simply mistaken!

Both the Eucharistic fast and the Wednesday and Friday fasts begin at Midnight.

Fr David Straut

I beg your pardon, Father, but at least among the Oriental Orthodox I'm familiar with, the fasts begin and end at sundown on Wednesday and Friday. 6pm seems to be a common time for calculating this, although in places where the daily cycle is observed, it is from Vespers to Vespers. I personally do midnight to midnight for the reasons you cite, but I'm in the minority.

Heavens above, there is no need to beg my pardon. I am no expert on the Non-Calcedonian Churches. Being quite parochial, when I said "the Eastern Church" I meant the Orthodox Church. I was also responding to someone who is contemplating switching from the Latin Rite to the Byzantine Rite of the Catholic Church, whose authentic traditions mirror that of the Orthodox Church. She gave no indication of desiring to be a Copt, Jacobite, or Armenian, Ethiopian, Eritrean, or Indian Orthodox. If she does contemplate such a move to either one of the Oriental Orthodox Churches or to the Rites of the Catholic Church which are their counterparts, you are undoubtedly the person to enlighten her as to the practises of those Churches and Rites.

But I must reiterate. As far as the practise of the Eastern Othodox Church, fasting is from midnight to midnight.

Fr David Straut

Wow. I was told at my church that the fast would begin at sundown (6) the night before, and this was confusing to remember at times, or weird when there would be certain times in each day to fast and times not to. One objection against this is that you can always plan certain times in a day to eat a lot or luxuriously. Anyway, I was also once sent a private message from someone on this forum who I thought was Orthodox telling me that the fast was observed from sundown to sundown. So, with all due respect, I think that even some Orthodox practice the matter differently. But it would seem that I found an article addressing the issue that seems to favor your opinion Fr. David. http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/fast_timing.aspx
It also mentions that this may make it hard to go out on a Saturday night socially. Is there a fast on Saturday Evenings that I do not know about besides not eating from midnight the night before receiving the Eucharist?
Brian

Bless, Father David!

With respect to the exemption from fasting during Bright week - I take it this is not extended throughout the paschal season until Pentecost?

Your comment on how the EC's "authentic tradition mirrors that of the EO" was, in a word, quite gentlemanly and excellent all around.

Alex

Logos-Alexis:

. . . until an indult was received from Rome by the U.S. Bishops in 1895

BOB

A couple observations:

(1) Many Latins are limiting their Wednesday foods to only bread and water following the requests of the Medjugoria messages.

(2) I recall reading somewhere that Latin Rite Catholics who belonged to parishes of other rites should observe the practices of the non-Latin rite. I believe the idea is that one should not pick and chose which discipline to follow and if you are following non-Latin practices you should be consistent.

Dear Alex,

May the Lord bless you!

Historically, in the Orthodox Church, the fast free periods during the period of the Pentecostarion are limited to Bright Week (a.k.a. Renewal Week or Easter Week) and the week after Pentecost.

The Greeks also include the Leave-taking (Apodosis), the day before Ascension Day, as fast-free. For the Russians, this is merely a wine and oil day.

The fast is mitigated on all Wednesdays and Fridays between Thomas Sunday and Pentecost. Wine and oil are permitted on all these days and we do not reduce the amount of meals taken.

The Coptic Church, as I understand it, has the whole Fifty Days between Pascha and Pentecost as fast free. (But note: their Apostles' Fast begins the day after Pentecost. There is no fast-free Pentecost Week.)

Recently, the Antiochian Patriarchate decided to break with the universal Eastern Orthodox practise and declared the whole Fifty Days to be fast-free. But that means that really it is fifty-seven fast free days, because Pentecost Week is added to the Fifty.

Fr David Straut

"(2) I recall reading somewhere that Latin Rite Catholics who belonged to parishes of other rites should observe the practices of the non-Latin rite. I believe the idea is that one should not pick and chose which discipline to follow and if you are following non-Latin practices you should be consistent."

I do not think this is entirely true even if it holds true as a principle as one is trying to truly live a lifestyle and not just pick and choose bits and pieces. But the fact that I am a Latin Rite means that I am still bound by their canon law. I need permission to receive certain sacraments in the other rite for instance. Also, if there were a holy day of obligation in the Latin Rite that was not being celebrated in he Eastern Rite, I would still be obligated to go, whereas I am not obligated to attend any days that are specific holy days for the East.
I am still told to fast on Ash Wednesday (one of the only two fast days thee are) whereas Ash wednesday is not celebrated at all in the same way (though the East is fasting that day, but not the same way), and Lent begins on monday for Eastern. I am probably still allowed fish on fridays.
My point is that it is too difficult to expect to be held completely to the disciplines of two churches at the same time. Therfore, I think I need to assimilate myself to the East where I can, but faithfully and fully observe the West when it would be considered necessary.
What else. I imagine that I can still fulfill my sunday obligation by going to a Vigil mass, even though it is technically Vespers for the Eastern Catholic, though I suppose they could also fulfill their obligation if the best chice they had was a saturday vigil.
So I would be curious as to what you read and to what extent it applied, because I do not think it could apply to the areas where we are called to obedience of specific observances. Attending Eastern services does make one officialy an Eastern Catholic or free them from the authority of their Latin Rite Bishop.
If all you read was saying that people are personally advised in disciplines to observe that of the church they are attending, then I could see how this is a good suggestion, as to remain faithful to the expression of your community and to discern if you belong in it. But in matters of law or where obedience is required I do not think you can be bound by two at once or that it can change ust because you are attending a different rite church. Until changing rites you never stop being under the authority that you started with.
Anyway, I am still relatively new to all this, so I am just saying as I understand. Forgive me if I am not on the right track. I am just curious as to what you read and how I can implement is suggestions.