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byzanTN #272115 01/09/08 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by byzanTN
God save our edited out queen...

Long may Mrs. Battenburg reign. wink
Although I personally support the Stuart Monarchy, I must say that I take offense at this jibe at Queen Elisabeth. Not only is it in poor taste, but I believe it also to be inaccurate.

Fr David Straut
FrDavidStraut@yahoo.co.uk

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God save the queen!
I myself am a Jacobite. My family came from Scotland. That being said it was her family that held Great Britain together during the WWII. The Queen mother was called the most dangerous woman in Europe by Hitler.

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Insulting the British monarchy is something some of us have done from time to time, usually to rile Alex. That always gets his goat! biggrin However, I would agree that the Stuarts have a stronger claim to the throne. My family fought in a war 200 or so years ago to get away from all that nonsense, so I have little sympathy or use for any of them. As I have said before, if the British people want to spend vast sums of money so this family of mediocre people can live in splendor and perform ceremonial functions, it's their money. To me it seems a waste. But I must admit I did admire the character of the Queen Mother. She was a remarkable lady.

ZAROVE #272194 01/09/08 07:01 AM
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Naw, it may be difficult but the national anthem is more historically memorable and it is so beautiful even if you do have to warble through it.

indigo #272198 01/09/08 07:53 AM
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Actually a monarchy is less expensive than an elected presidency. As to the US national anthem, the Battle Hymn of the Republic is easier to sing than either the Star Spangled Banner or God Bless America, but neither of those choices is a national anthem.

"God save the edited out Queen"! Now there is a slogan to make one think! I'd be more than happy to see the Battenbergs edited out.

Now I shall go and sing Mo Ghile Mar - the Stuart anthem in Irish.

Fr. Serge

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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
Actually a monarchy is less expensive than an elected presidency. As to the US national anthem, the Battle Hymn of the Republic is easier to sing than either the Star Spangled Banner or God Bless America, but neither of those choices is a national anthem.

Believe it or not, there are still people in the South (Dixie)who strenuously object to singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic under any circumstances. I doubt there are any Catholics of this sort, but there sure are a number of Protestants.

I had a Presbyterian pastor once, who in his Sunday sermon vehemently stated as he pointed to his mouth, "THESE lips will NEVER sing the Battle Hymn!" And, when I was in seminary (Anglican) I attended the funeral of the deans father in law. During the prelude the organist began to play the Battle Hymn. The deans wife shot out of her seat like a bullet, marched over to the organ and stopped her playing mid hymn. She was a native Texan. LOL

I personally must admit...there is a laser light show every summer evening at Stone Mountain, Georgia...a massive bald granite mountain with a 5 mile circumference. During the laser show there is a scene cast on the mountain of Robert E Lee and Ulysses S Grant shaking hands...during which they play the Battle Hymn...I always feel scandalized. LOL We southerners seem to have a hard time forgetting.

Jason

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To be sung to an air at which the pious may guess:

Mine eyes have seen the horror of the coming of the Reds!
They are tearing up Old Glory into sixty million shreds.
They are hiding in our closets; they are underneath our beds.
Let's fight, until they're gone!

Chorus:
Glory, glory Joe McCarthy,
Glory, glory Joe McCarthy,
Glory, glory Joe McCarthy!
Let's fight, until they're gone!


They are running through my kitchen, and that really makes me mad;
I have counted four this morning - that's including Mom and Dad;
They will soon take over Pittsburgh and rename it [er . . .} Volgograd.
Let's fight, until they're gone!

They are peeping in my windows every night when I watch Paar;
I have found them in the glove compartment of my family car.
They are swinging through the tree-tops; they control the D. A. R.!
Let's fight, until they're gone!

I have seen them in the cages of the park menagerie;
I have learned that all but one are in the Birch Society.
Right now I'm in the process of investigating ME!
Let's fight, until we're gone!


Footnotes:

Jack Paar was an early TV talk-show host;
the D. A. R. is an antiquated organization called "the Daughters of the American Revolution";
Volgograd is the Khrushchovian name for Stalingrad, which was the Stalinist name for Tsaritsyn. Perhaps they've changed it back to Tsaritsyn by now; I don't know.

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There's no requirement to sing the National Anthem (or anything else) at the begining of a sporting event. If the organizers decide to have a patriotic song performed "God Bless America" is fine with me.

IIRC "God Save the Queen" is only used in Canada and other realms when the soveriegn or another member of the royal family is present. I always prefered this rendition:

God save our gracious King
Long live our noble Kong
God save King Kong!


byzanTN #272266 01/09/08 05:16 PM
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I enjoyed the custom of everyone singing the national anthem. In the last 20 years or so, that custom has been replaced by a soloist or group sing. The announcers used to say, "Please stand to sing the National Anthem," or "Please stand and so-and-so will lead us in singing the National Anthem."

Also since September 11, 2001, it became customary at baseball games to sing "God Bless America" during the seventh inning stretch, along with Take Me Out to the Ball Game."


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Quote
Believe it or not, there are still people in the South (Dixie)who strenuously object to singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic under any circumstances. I doubt there are any Catholics of this sort, but there sure are a number of Protestants.

In college I knew some Louisiana Catholics who took issue with it as well. Just remember which side the Holy Father sympathized with.

Not the best article, but thought-provoking:
http://www.catholicism.org/catholicism-south.html

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Originally Posted by Byzantophile
Quote
Believe it or not, there are still people in the South (Dixie)who strenuously object to singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic under any circumstances. I doubt there are any Catholics of this sort, but there sure are a number of Protestants.

In college I knew some Louisiana Catholics who took issue with it as well. Just remember which side the Holy Father sympathized with.

Not the best article, but thought-provoking:
http://www.catholicism.org/catholicism-south.html

That the Holy Father sympathized with an unjustly treated prisoner is not surprising. That the nuns and the Bishop of Charleston would be concerned for their local flock is not surprising. That Bishop Lynch would undertake a diplomatic mission in search of peace is not surprising either.

To extrapolate that into siding with the Confederacy is a bit of a stretch. Perhaps there is a reason why recent Pontiffs have discouraged clergy involvement in politics?

-------------------------------------------------------

The show at Stone Mountain Park, (the mountain is a true marvel that everyone should see), is not surprising. That the Confederate cabal is "agin' it" is also not surprising, but is very sad.

The magnanimous terms of Appomattox, issued by General "Unconditional Surrender" Grant on that Palm Sunday, were viewed as remarkable by even the Confederates. The officers were allowed to take their horses and weapons home. What kind of victor allows his opponent to walk away armed and riding the vehicle of war?

It is because General Grant and his boss, President Lincoln, and his subordinate, Gereral William T. Sherman, wanted to build a lasting peace. The General ordered his men to stop cheering when the end of the war was announced because "the rebels are our countrymen again".

Alas, the assasination of President Lincoln on Good Friday brought to office the weak Tennessean, President Andrew Johnson, who could not muster the political strength to maintain a just peace.

When the Confederates in North Carolina under Gen. Johnston surrendered to Gen. Sherman, Sherman offered generous terms and offered to negotiate for surrender of all the Confederates. The War Department ordered harsher terms imposed, and the post war poisoning of the well began.

After Davis was captured, it was pretty clear that he would suffer for his politics. Interestingly, the Justice who let him go, Salmon P. Chase, had been appointed by President Lincoln.

---------------------------------------------------------

To reflect further, if the Confederacy had achieved independence over the economic issues dividing North from South, including but not limited to the price of labor, what other issues would have been used to divide the remaining states?

It is likely that California and the west would have separated on the basis of, say, the price or coinage of gold, or other mineral wealth.

Utah would have separated on the issue of polygamy.

Alaska would be the outpost of the Russian Monarchists (much like the Chinese Nationalists went to Taiwan).

Hawaii would have become a British or Japanese colony.

The remnant of the "United States" would be weak and unable to contribute much to the world, while waiting for other states to come up with reasons to leave.

-------------------------------------------------------

What would the consequences have been if the USA was unable to defend France (and international shipping) in 1917?

What would the consequences be if Mexico had joined with Germany to make war in Arizona? A Catholic Empire in North America? Not likely. Ask Father Miguel Pro and his companions.

What would the absence of America have meant to the peoples of Europe during the Nazi years? Would the Nazi years include 2008?

What would the absence of America have meant to the peoples of Europe during the Soviet years? Ask the Ukrainians.

Would the Phillipines be free?

---------------------------------------------------------

You can guess that I have little sympathy for the Confederates, except to recognize individual injustices done by those holding power. I remember reading something that started "power corrupts... "

The freedom of many people in the world rests on the shoulders of the soldiers of the "march to the sea" through Georgia in 1864.

--------------------------------------------------------

To paraphrase Father Serge's rendition of the Battle Hynm, here goes my contribution, from the soldiers' point of view:


The fires of Atlanta light our way across the land,

The families of the freedmen march with us along the way.

The City of Savannah is your Christmas gift this year,

And we are marching home!


Glory, glory, Billy Sherman!
Glory, glory, Billy Sherman!
Glory, glory, Billy Sherman!

Carolina's next in view!



Bet it won't make the Hymnal. frown


E Pluribus Unum!

God Bless America!

End of Rant!

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I detest the "Battle Hymn Of The Republic" and I'm as Catholic as P.T Beauregard.

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Shermans March To The Sea was simply deplorable, really. All he left was destruction in his wake that took a century to rebuild, and reduced the glories of the South, once even above that of the North, to nothign but ruins.

I've little sympathy for him.

ZAROVE #272958 01/13/08 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ZAROVE
Shermans March To The Sea was simply deplorable, really. All he left was destruction in his wake that took a century to rebuild, and reduced the glories of the South, once even above that of the North, to nothign but ruins.

I've little sympathy for him.

Not to mention murder, rape and all the other atrocities of a secular war by this "christian" army.

Jason

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Had Sherman been on the losing side, he quite likely would have been hanged for war crimes.

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