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Mar 25th, 2025
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Today's opening collect...
"God of power and mercy, who blessed the America's at Tepeyac with the presence of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Guadalupe, grant we beseech you through her intercession, that we may accept one another in Christ and through the out pouring of Your justice into our hearts, come to rejoice in the gift of Your peace".
james
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As I left the doctors office this evening I looked up at the moon and thought what a lovely halo around it. My daughter looked and saw it, but the other people who walked out at the same time didn't (they aren't Catholic either), she thought it was awesome. Something that if you see it is usually in the fall. I kept being drawn back to the halo if I took my eyes off for too long and wondering how these wonderful colors were there...yellow, green, red, and brillliant white in the middle. Then I shouted out, it is the colors surrounding Our Lady of Guadelupe. The colors like in this picture http://community.theolympian.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album156&id=lady2 Then the moon bagan to dance like the sun does. Sometimes I was able to see a trail of like eight peices of the moon with the full moon. My daughter and I watched with amazement, sometimes they were in a line, sometimes like we use to do with the design maker things that we used pencils with and spun the wheel about, and sometimes like a cross. I also the thought the formation of the clouds were very unusual tonight. They seemed to be very bright, and like rows of square puffs, very different, very organized in shape and form. A very interesting sky to behold on 12/12/1005. Glory to God! Pani Rose A beautiful story, Pani Rose. Thank you for posting it and sharing it. I tried to get on the board yesterday but for some reason it was not working. The missus and I attended Mass at a nearby rural parish that is the home for many migrant Mexican farm workers. They had a mariachi band and a celebration after Mass. The missus wants to teach CCD there next year. We will see if she can, or cannot, as we are waiting to see if she is - embarazada .
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I am posting here to bring the thread up to the first page, so our brother Tertulian can find this more easily.
Shalom,
Memo
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Memo,
Muchas gracias por toda esta relacion, y especialmente por sus contribuciones personales de los detallos!
Shalom,
Michael
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De nada! 
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Hey Memo, I received a request for you from a friend that works in youth ministry in Canada. Could you please post any resources that you have on here. THANKS! Here is her request.... Hi there, I was asked to find info on Our Lady of Guadalupe and it led me to your forum online. (THAT IS THIS TOPIC) https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=160741 I don't know what source that person is quoting on and I don't know where he got his story but I would like to be able to access it for myself since I need the information for the upcoming retreat. I have not found any direct quotes concerning Juan Diego. If you could find out where he got the information it would be a great asset to this retreat where we will be displaying this image of Our Lady of Guadalupe in February 15-16-17 for about 80-120 teens.... I liked the way he puts in little tidbits of culture that make the encounter more fascinating and shows a greater depth to the encounter. The flowers were not mere flowers but a show of wealth and importance. Awesome.. I am trying to cut and past the information into come kind of coherent report the teens can read when they come up to venerate the image...learning more about he culture is important in order to understand the depth of the meeting between Juan and the Mother of God.
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Oh THANK YOU JOHN! Here is a link to the ministry she is involved with http://catholicanada.com/web/index....=viewlink&link_id=2990&Itemid=27They have kids doing retreats for other children. They go to schools and such and do weekend retreats. They are from elementry to high school age kids doing this. It is an amazing work of the Lord!
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Thank you Pani Rose, More stuff to read, so I don't have any time to do anything useful!   Just a couple of clicks, and I wished I was there before Christmas. See this page: http://home.golden.net/~wts/words/otherwords/wts-thehuroncarol.html
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Hi,
I just want to publicly acknowledge the interest in this topic. I have already sent Pani Rose a PM with specifics, but in general, anybody should feel free to use and distribute any of my postings in this forum.
I am honored by anybody even considering my postings useful
As for the English translation posted above, I will offer publicly the same comment I sent Rose earlier. This is a very good, but very literal translation. It doesn't carry over th culture of the Nahua people.
What I did in my original posts was to use the Spanish translation and translated that into English. The Spanish translation was done and annotated by a priest who is not only fluent in both Spanish and Nahuatl, but also profoundly familiar with the Nahua culture, so he was able to offer additional insights into the meaning and implications of some of the details of the original text, which are bound to be lost in translation, if we only translate words and sentences. I used his notes heavily in my own comments.
Thank you all!
Shalom,
Memo
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Memo and everyone,
Does anyone have a picture of an icon of our lady of guadalupe? (I know about the image and the tilma, I am looking for an icon)
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Hello, As usual around this time of the year, I do something to bring this thread back to the top, so people interested in a Mexican’s view of Our Lady of Guadalupe may have something to read. This year, I am going attempt to sketch an interpretation of the graphic elements in the image of the tilma itself, from the point of view of the Aztec culture. The first thing I am going to mention is that the Aztecs were a very graphic culture. This should not be hard to understand to the Eastern Christian mentality. The Aztec “codex” is functionally equivalent to the Eastern “icon” in religious and cultural contexts. It is not just a picture, but actually a story-telling object of devotion and knowledge. The Aztecs were highly educated, all children went to school and learned how to read and write a codex, so these pictograms were both the Icon and the Scripture of their religion. An important element in Aztec codex writing is that the codex would normally express not only the timing of the story, but also its geographic placement. Now, we also need to understand a little bit better the Aztec religion. The common understanding is that Aztecs were polytheists, in the same sense as the ancient Greeks or Romans were. This is not precise. The various Aztec “gods” were understood to be expressions or emanations of the One True God, Teotl. Aztec polytheism was closer to Hinduism, in this regard. Yes, there were human sacrifices, but they were not understood as a way to appease an adverse deity, but rather as a way to repay the sacrifices God/the gods made in favor of the world: The sun rose every morning to give light and warmth, but in order to do that, it had to die and shed its blood every evening (hence the red evening sky). Finally, the Aztec cosmovision was firmly planted in dualism: Night and Day, Male and Female, Heaven and Earth. All things had two elements in mutual opposition and tension (that is way all representations of Teotl are dual in one way or another, but that is not in contradiction to Teotl’s unity – somewhat analogous to the Christian notion of One God who is a Trinity). The first symbol I want to talk about is called the “Nahui-Ollin”, literally that means Four-Movement and it is in reference to the Aztec belief that they were living in the 5th era of the world, with 4 previous eras ending in cosmic cataclysm. The symbol has a number of variants, but in its purest form looks like this: [ Linked Image] This is the Aztec’s expression of their macro-cosmos: God, represented by the circle in the middle is the center of everything. God is dual, that is why the circle is divided in half, the top part is plain, that represents the sun and the bottom part has an inner circle because two concentric circles represent a star, symbol of the night. The two round shapes at the right and the left of the central circle symbolizes God’s embrace of all. At the top, there is a chevron shape pointing upwards, this represents the dawn, the East, the chevron represents the divine light received from the rising sun. At the bottom, the symbol of a war shield with the symbol of a star represents the sun’s combat during the day that ends with sunset, when the sun sheds its blood to give life to the next day. The four square shapes represent the four past eras, epochs or movements of history, also embraced by God. This symbol is also an expression of the Aztec’s micro-cosmos: At the center of the human body there is the heart, where God lives and which expresses the totality of the person. Above the heart, the head is where God sheds His light, life and wisdom on us, beneath the heart are the reproductive organs, with which we give life to the next generation and the four squares are our four limbs with which we move and work. With this introductory material, we are ready to take a look at the tilma itself. Stay tuned! Shalom, Memo
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