www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall What do you think of Islam?

Dear friends,

Last night, an earnest young African American man confronted me at a coffee shop, and very enthusiastically tried to "witness" to me about Islam. He was a little over-zealous, and began to link white oppression of minorities in America to the Islamic struggle, but he was not Nation of Islam. When he heard I was Catholic, he laughed and called it "the ultimate white man's religion."

The Coffee shop is owned by Muslim Somali immigrants, who are very decent people and kind to me as a customer and neighbor. One of them tried to temper this young man's enthusiasm. The Somali man also praised America and told me he was voting for Ron Paul. He seemed genuine of his appreciation of America, but also was concerned that I knew he and other Muslims were not anti-American.

I attempted to share with this young man how I view God as a God of love, a relational God who is personal. I shared with him I was confident in my faith that Christ is God, a doctrine he attacked constantly through out our conversation. I wanted to witness to him in response, but he interrupted me constantly, and the coffee shop was closing anyway. In spite of his rudeness in conversation and talkativeness, he seemed quite intelligent and well read (but perhaps just enough history to be dangerous).

It struck me afterward that I need to know more about Islam. If I really want to witness to Christ in the postmodern world, I want to know how to assert the Divinity of Christ, and how to convey God's love for Muslims.

I am curious to know what people think of Islam, and what our stance should be as Christians, perhaps even particular as Byzantine/Orthodox Christians, since so much of our history has intersections with Islam. I very much want to hear what my friends on this forum have to say about this issue.

I have seen Byzantine & Orthodox Christians take basically two stances towards Islam:

1) IT is a religion of fear & violence at its root, hell bent on destroying Christians and Jews, deeply mysoginist, and a greater threat than the old Soviet Union ever was.

2) Islam can be our partner in the culture wars. They worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and though mistaken in their view of Christ, they are nevertheless our cousins in the faith, similar to Jews. We should not identify all of Islam with the militant and terrorist movements within Islam, and need to understand Islam better and dialog with the moderate element within Islam. Even if we say that Christ is the only way to salvation, we can recognize that many Muslims are good people with good family values, and deep reverence for God.

I acknowledge the two choices presented above are simplistic; yet I think it is fair to say most Christians lean toward one or the other of these views.

What do you all think of this? I am struggling with my conscious over these matters. On one hand, I really do have concerns regarding Islam, and I am not naive about the reality of "Islamo-Fascism" and terrorism in our world. Yet, something does not feel right in my heart being so black and white about Muslims either.

I removed a link to a quite excellent Christian site from my own blog, because the other Christian site had several articles extremely critical of Islam. I do not necessarily disagree with these articles, but I see my blog as a place for potential dialogue, and a place for sharing the beauty of the Byzantine faith. I am not sure I want to get into polemics on my site. I want to encourage dialogue, not shut it down.

What do you all think? I am very open to learning from you all, and accepting spiritual counsel on this matter.

Blessing,


Lance

"the ultimate white man's religion."

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That young man should go tell them and see what they think.

Prayer is the first and best answer for folks like that poor confused young man.

I had wanted to share with him about the African Church Fathers... People do not know Church history that well...

I am thinking he is not as familiar with the history, to compare and contrast, of Islam and Christianity in sub-saharan Africa.

Tell him about the blacks shipped into slavery to this very day from the east African coast by his Islamic Arab brethren. Or the black christians murdered by the troops loyal to Idi Amin in Uganda. Or the genocide of christian blacks in Darfur.

CHRISTIANITY was started principly by a group of Jews, and Prime above them, Jesus the CHrist, a Jewish man. Its first adherants where Jewish, and of Semetc origin, and woudl hve shown in their Olive skinned complexion.

Jesus was likely not wite, nor where the 12 Apostles, or later originalk Disiples.

The Greeks themselves arne't totally white either, and many of the firts converts outide of Judaism where in Africa and Arabia.

Europe grew slowr to Christ, dispite it beign late the Fortrsss of Christianity.

That said, if you asked me what I think of Islam, I think only this, that it is wrong, but not so woefully as others.

Those who critisise it and say that Islam follows a diffrent god are mistaken, but simply because they worship the same God that we do doens't eman that they are correct in their view about God.

In who and what God is, his exact relationship to mankind and the world, Salvaiton, and the person of Jesus CHrst, they are much mistaken, but otherwise, they worhsip the same God.

Where they ae mistaken, they shoudl be corrected gently and out of love.

Where they aren't mistaken, where they are shown to hold values that the CHrist emphasised, they ar eot be praised.

Otherwise, treat each as an individual.

Your over-Zealous new aquainence was perhaps overeager, but I am mor eocncerned with his Racism agaisnt white men, and his Anti-Americanism ( Assumign he has this.)

As a Brit of ocruse Ive espoused some Anti-American sentiment, but, mine is more of a paternal chiding, not an outright concemnation on the United States.

It always makes me wonder why thoe who liv ein a land that is so free so hate it.

While I understand the point you are trying to make, and while I will agree that some Greeks have dark complexions, as do some Italians, some Jews, and alot of Middle Eastern peoples in comparison to Northern Europeans, we are are all still considered part of the 'white'/European race.



Jews come from many different tribes, and their colourings actually vary quite a bit. Jesus may have been a light brown haired, fair complexioned, blue eyed Jew, or He may have been an olive skinned, black eyed, black haired Jew!!

--Just FYI...

Alice

Jews in firts century Palistine more than likely hadd middle-eastern features.

The Jews came only from oen tribe, really, the Tribe of Judah, from which the name originated, which itsself came from the middle east.

With the pourity of the peopel paramunt after the Babylonain Captivity, they dodnt' even accept the Samaritains, so its highly dubtful tha much mixing took place at the time of our Lord.

As tot he Greeks, my point was nto to insult thm of course, or you, but to reveal that the whole "White mans religion' Cncpt is a bit silly.

Christianity is a faioth of all ethnicities, and which doens't really follow a single race, and even race itsself is much harder to define than people really think.

I'm as white as th driven snow, but that doesn't mean that soemoen is less caucasion than me of they arne't. Howver, they'd obviosuly ave Genes for more Melenine than I do.

The Greeks also benefited form being closer to the middle east and africa, and some interbreedin did occure by this route.

Nevertheless, the Greeks , Italians, British, Chinese, Africans, and all other races, ar eone in Christ.

Incedentlaly, there are white Muslims.

Of course there are, though not all of them started out as Wisconsin Lutherans, as one of my colleagues did.

Islam is diverse. The current trend of radicalism is destructive, though there are many moderate Muslims who do not share the extremists' worldview. We must be careful as some characteristics may be atavistic, especially in poorer tribal communities, such as if the radical Islamist population comes to a critical mass and tightens the noose on the non-Muslim population. This has happened before in various stages of Islamic history and it could happen again in certain areas. We may have major problems in the future as the tribal culture is coming into play in Europe. A little of what may be in store for Europe and America has been showing itself in various forms. Such as when in Germany when a judge dismissed the case of a woman seeking an expedient divorce by quoting the Qur'an and suggesting that her husband was justified. The flirting in Ontario with giving Sharia law jurisdiction in some matters and the riots in Paris both hint to incommensurable difference between certain interpretations of Islam and Western society.

It would not be in our best interests to say that there is a universal Islam of peace and love so that religion plays no role when bombs are strapped to children. There are moderates and extremists. Moderate Islam is not always cheerfully joined with Judeo-Christian values, but there is room for a common respect. An honest pursuit of God's will is a virtue, even if it is not a Christian virtue.

When I speak to Muslims about faith I am careful to keep the topic on theology. I will not discuss history or make any reference to modern terrorism.

Terry

Here's something I posted a long time ago:

https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/52991#Post52991

The title is "Is Christianity a White Man's Religion?"

Terry, Here's [nytimes.com] an article that provides further information about the subsequent removal of the German judge. And this [cbc.ca] makes it clear that Sharia won't fly in Ontario. Rioting in Paris was apparently due to poor conditions [frontpagemag.com] in housing projects; this combined with a perception that the police were targeting Muslims when two young people fled and were subsequently electrocuted because they had hidden in a sub-station and were electrocuted.

A better example may have been the large group of Somali Muslims currently in Minnesota and a lack of understanding that religious freedom applies to all; therefore, cab drivers may not require their fares to adhere to Sharia law. Or perhaps the refusal of cashiers in SuperTarget to handle pork products. Then again, Somalia is a Muslim country and people weren't used to putting their religion aside in the workplace as there was no need to do so. And they cite "religion" for "cultural traditions" not realizing that other Muslims have different traditions.

It is one of the greatest threats to the human race today.
That is what I think about it.
Stephanos I

Dear Lance,
Try to get hold of a copy of "The Islamist" by Ed Husain. It shows how the religion of Islam has been largely hijacked by politically motivated fanatics. The author is a British Muslim who was seduced into this kind of radicalism, but left when he realised what it leads to (his sister was minutes away from being killed in the London bombings). He has reverted to the Sufism he was brought up with, which is the peace-loving religion of Islam.

Hey Lance,

A litte off topic, but ANOTHER Ron Paul supporter? You must attract Ron Paul supporters like crazy!

Actually, there are two Ron Paul signs on my street in Blaine, and I meet supporters all around too, but he can't win any stinking primaries.

Time for me to put my tinfoil hat on and start thinking conspiracy....


As far as considering how to view Islam, I've thought about it a lot too. On a fundamentalist board I visit, they thinkthe Muslims are go to bed at night thinking about how they can kill us all.

While the religion is a religion founded by the sword and is definately false, I think the economic situation in many Muslim countries contribute to the extremism (which is why we haven't seen a lot of extremist Muslims in the US, because their economic condition is improved).

Just my thoughts, I could be way off.

Nathan

PS My brother, who is a Captian in Iraq right now is now officially a Ron Paul supporter as well!