www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Paten v. Footed Paten

I've noticed recently that most priests of the Byzantine-Slavic variety use a footed paten (diskos)

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while those of the Byzantine-Greek variety use patens without a foot as is done in the Latin Rite.

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My copy of Attwater's A Catholic Dictionary says that the Ukrainian Catholics use the 'Greek paten', though this seems to be a 'mixed bag' these days.

So my questions are these, 1.) does anyone know how these two styles of patens developed, 2.) why there is this difference among those who use the Byzantine Rite, and 3.) which do the Melkites use?

I have never seen a flat diskos used anywhere, either in Slavic, Arabic, or Byzantine usage.

Alexandr

Dear Alexandr,

I was surpised to see a footless diskarion used at the Liturgies in Aghiou Pavlou Monastery on Mount Athos when I was there 10 years ago.

Fr David Straut

Wow, that is odd. I have served at both the Prophet Elias Skete and at Chilandar, and a footed diskarion was used at both. And at Zoographou and Great Lavra, a footed diskarion was brought out at the Enterance.

Alexandr

We use the flat diskos in our Melkite churches. I have seen one or two raised ones, but the majority appears to be flat.

We have a flat one in Edinburgh - but in Lourdes they have both , but the one with a stem/foot is used every day [ well it belongs to a Chalice set brought from Ukraine ]

We have both footed and flat diskoi in my Melkite parish. The main diskos is footed, but the number of communicants is such that we need more than one, and the flat diskoi hold more and are easier to handle. Since the Slavic tradition is to place the Eucharistic bread into the poterion prior to communion the footed diskos makes sense while, in the Melkite tradition, larger communities may tend to use the flat ones.

Fr. Deacon Ed

I assume that ours is footed, as we have the piece above it. But quite honestly, even standing at the altar week after week, I've never noticed the feet or lack thereof!

Diskoi without foots are quite common among Greek Catholics of all stripes. My guess is most Greek Catholics bought from Catholic liturgical suppliers who more often had diskoi/patens of the unfooted variety. An unfortunate consequence of this is the non-use of the little veil for because they are almost universally made with a footed diskos in mind and are therefore too long to be used with an unfooted one. I see no reson why it should matter if a diskos is footed or unfooted or why a veil could not be made to fit an unfooted one. I will say that an unfooted diskos is easier to hold while distributing Communion, for those that prefer to use this in conjunction with a lention rather than just the lention alone.

Fr. Deacon Lance

One can find many examples, both in old monasteries and in museums, of ancient Byzantine diskoi that are "footless." I am reminded of a great photo in one of my favorite issues of National Geographic from January 1964. This edition includes a great story on Mount Sinai and St. Catherine's Monastery. The photo shows the Great Entrance, with the deacon carrying a footless diskos with a large metal cover instead of a cloth one.

The fact that the Byzantine is the only liturgical tradition in the Christian world that uses footed diskoi (and even then, as has been mentioned, not universally) suggests that the foot is a later, albeit very practical, addition. I'd also say that the rubric specifying that the deacon should carry the diskos *on* his head during the Great Entrance almost presupposes a flat diskos--and the iconography of the "Heavenly Liturgy" found in many Byzantine churches actually shows an angel in deacon's vestments doing exactly this, with a footless paten.

Dave

Very interesting! Thanks for the info!

err, why (or how) would the diskos be used during Communion in a Byzantine Catholic church?

Our paten has a "monopod" (though perhaps there is a formal name for it); it is on a base similar to (and apparently matching) the chalice.

hawk

It is held between the fingers with the same hand that holds the chalice and is used just as the lention would be to catch the Holy Gifts if dropped. Sometimes a deacon or server will hold hold it for the priest and this is prescribed in the Ordo.

Fr. Deacon Lance

N. B. This use of the discarion is peculiar to those who follow the Ruthenian service-books - and is a blatant imitation of the Roman "communion paten".

Fr. Serge