www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy The Future of Prostopinije

Check the OrthodoxChristianity.net Eastern Catholic threads and you will find the author.

U-C

Why not just say outright it was Lemko Rusyn on OrthodoxChristianity.net or perhaps provide a link [orthodoxchristianity.net] to make it just a tad easier to find the context of the text you quoted? Why all the cloak and dagger attitude toward such a simple request!?

Later in the same thread Lemko Rusyn states:(bolding for emphasis by me):

OK, I agree with Lemko Rusyn's statement on OrthodoxChristianity.net thread about the Ruthenian RDL.

U-C

Keith,

Thank you for answering. I should have referenced my question to Etnick, who originally posted the quote and was reticent to name his source when asked.

Go back read Lemko Rusyn's follow up answer, as it is very descriptive of the current situation in the "Sui Juris Metropolitan Byzantine Church of America".

Ung

Actually the musical situation in the Eparchy of Krizhevtsi is complicated, and involves three distinct traditions of chant, so one should not think of imposing just one tradition there. On the other hand, though, it would certainly be interesting to investigate and describe - with audio recordings - the various forms of liturgical music in use in the Eparchy.

The thrice-blessed Archbishop Gabriel (Bukatko) was an excellent musicologist and a fine singer, who took justified pleasure in himself chanting, from memory, this or that important liturgical piece (say the Kontakion or the Photagogicon of a feast day) three times, each time in a different chant tradition. Memory Eternal!

Fr. Serge

Ung,

Apparently Lemko Rusyn feels that the problems in some parishes, including the cathedral in Munhall preceded the RDL! Who's have thunk it? The prostopinije tradition had been dying in our church for decades. Whether one likes or dislikes the RDL there is a renewed genuine interest in the prostopinije tradition of the Byzantine Ruthenian church. Witness last year's 100th anniversary of Bokshay's "prostopinije" celebrated in Uzhgorod. If no one cared, why have a celebration?

From an earlier post in the same thread. This is why having the source of where quotes are taken can be so enlightening. I can only guess as to which the 'other' forum is.

Steve,

Where do we go from here? A priest from the Archeparchy has now been assigned to teach music and chant at the seminary. Who will take over the MCI? Is Rome indeed reviewing the RDL? Stay tuned, as inquiring minds would like to know!

Ung

"a priest from the Archeparchy..", and does he have a name?

I would expect that any real change for the RDL or anything else "intereparchial" will wait until April at the earliest, when the new bishop elect for Van Nuys is installed and gets settled in.

"Who will take over the MCI?"

Perhaps you should. You have been among the vocal critics of it, so now perhaps would be a good time to petition Met. Basil for a position in the Metropolia. Most likely the (unnamed) priest who has been appointed to teach music and chant at the seminary.

"Is Rome indeed reviewing the RDL?"

Most likely yes, given the volumes of letters of complaint.

"Stay tuned, as inquiring minds would like to know!"

Sounds like an ad posted by the National Enquirer. This attitude only serves to cheapen the seriousness of what is involved. were this just a titillating tabloid story that would be one thing, but this does involve the future well being of our church. and rather than engaging idle speculation we should be contemplating with serious, fervent prayer, our own actions.

Yes, but he said not to mention his name. Hopefully the Archeparchy will make an annoucement.

Ung

I'm trying to find a copy of the Bokshay book. Anyone know where to get one? The cantor I learned under used it all the time, so I'm familiar with it. However, I DID find a copy of it in pdf form online a few years back and downloaded it: http://www.patronagechurch.com/PDF/Prostopinije/prostopinije_index.htm

Perhaps what's needed is one of us to master Slavonic and make an accurate translation into English. I'd love to do both, as I'm a) a musician, b) a songwriter, c) an English teacher/expert. But I'm not d) fluent in Slavonic or e) a theologian.

I'm not saying this to dispute the RDL. I'm saying it to preserve true Prostopinije. Why hasn't anyone done a good English translation of this work?

I was saddened by a comment recently. I was at an OCF meeting and the president suggested that we should start doing vespers in different traditions (not just Greek). He rattled off a list of traditions (Russian, Ukranian, Serbian...) but after he said "Carpatho-Russian" the priest who is OCF's spiritual father said, "Ugh, they've really simplified that." and I got the impression he wasn't a fan. I didn't know what to say. I'm in ACROD and my fellow Prostopinije singer is Byzantine Catholic. We didn't know what to say.

My immediate thought was to go to Bokshay and try to figure it out. But I'm at a loss here.

Interesting news Ung. It sure would be nice to know before the next session who has been assigned to teach the RDL to new cantors and translation of the podobens and bohars to the graduate students.

"Perhaps what's needed is one of us to master Slavonic and make an accurate translation into English. I'd love to do both, as I'm a) a musician, b) a songwriter, c) an English teacher/expert. But I'm not d) fluent in Slavonic or e) a theologian.

I'm not saying this to dispute the RDL. I'm saying it to preserve true Prostopinije. Why hasn't anyone done a good English translation of this work?"

Isn't this what +Archbishop Judson created the IELC and IEMC to do? They have done their job, now it's up to the clergy, cantors and parishioners to do theirs.

Zeeker,

I'm not sure what you mean, but I have not seen an English translation of the full Bokshay delivered as a book called Prostopinije or Plain Chant.

I was talking about a proper translation of the book, apart from the liturgical commission or whatever, but hopefully with the blessings of the Catholic and Orthodox hierarchs.

Right....