www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News what am I to make of this???

I ran into a Christian web site (Christianity.com) that hosts a forum similiar to this one. I ran into a post that was very disturbing to me. The Pope was receiving a blessing from a priestess. It was the mark of Shiva, a Hinud demon. What are we to make of this?
Please give me some feedback.

Edited by Administrator to remove link posted that was in violation of Forum rules.

How does one know this is what the "priestess" is doing? It could very well be a Catholic Indian woman, at least from the picture.

Reading the incredible bias of that board, I may have to go throw up now...

ChristTeen287

I understand that while the woman was of the Hindu faith, this is a nonsectarian ritual of greeting. I do not recall if she was a Hindu layperson or not, but since the current Pope of Rome has prayed with Anglican women clergy, this would not be remarkable.

Axios

Axios is correct in that this was a nonsectarian ritual of greeting (this topic has been discussed here many times). I do not agree with his comparison of Pope John Paul II's informal prayer with Anglican women clergy. Greeting rituals are not prayer, they are expressions of culture. Prayer with other Christians who do not embrace the fullness of the Gospel is not forbidden and any of us old enough to remember civic events in which priests, ministers and rabbis all offered prayers have participated in much the same thing. What is forbidden is the concelebration of liturgical prayer and even the worst detractors of Pope John Paul II cannot condemn him for that.

Please let's keep this thread positive and not turn it into another attack on the pope thread.

-

Volodymyr,

Please note that Forum rules prohibit cross posting threads from other forums for discussion here. You may raise the questions but please do not offer links. I highly suggest that you not participate in other forums where the perspective is distinctly anti-Catholic.

Admin

dear Volodymyr:

No need to worry about that photo.

Without further evidence corroborating its caption, the captions seems extremely libelous.

Firstly, as far as I know, Hinduism does not have "priestesses".

As far as I know, only the priestly Brahmin males do all the religious ceremonies and stuff.

Secondly, the woman in the picture is not even dressed in the priestly garb of the Brahmins, but in regular ordinary garb.

Thirdly, it is a very common thing in India to welcome people to a feast or big do by putting some coloured sawdust paste on the forehead. I suppose it might be likened to garlands for Hawaii or a lapel flower/corsage at a wedding.

Fourthly, my guess would be that the woman is a Catholic (quite possibly even Eastern-Catholic - Syro-Malabar or Syro-Malankar).

So without evidence to the contrary, it seems to be less than credible (from beginning to end and anyway you look at it).

In other words, "fear not..."

Herb

I believe hinduism is a pagan religion and the brahamins to be pagan priests, this doesnt change. However, the giving of the "tilac" (which in hinduism was the Mark of Shiva) is a way people welcome visitors and has been adopted by the secular culture. It's like when a Hawaiian girl gives you a flower necklas or a "hula-hu" made with flowers, this doesn't mean you are accepting polinessian paganism when you do that! I think that the criticisms against the Pope because of this are not accurate.

In my opinion I found more disturbing the photo when he appears kissing the Koran, and his participation in some animist ceremonies in Togo and Canada. But after the explanation was given, I think that there's no reason to say that this is bad (I think it was a gesture of politeness and respect toward those who received them).

About the prayer gatherings. How can these scriptural passages be interpreted? what is the correct interpretation?

A man who is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid, knowing that such a man is subverted and sins, being condemned by his own judgment (Tit. 3:10-11).

If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, do not receive him into the house nor say to him: "God speed you." For, he who says to him "God speed you" communicates with his wicked works (Jn. 1:10-11).

I am wondering if the scriptural texts were intended by the writer to pertain to those within the "household of the faith" who hold doctrines that are not in harmony with the accepted deposit of teaching. They are meant to protect ordinary Christians from 'contamination' with untheologically proven postulates.

To suggest that participation, as a friend, in the social customs of non-Christians seems to me to be an abjuration of the Gospel mandate to receive all in love and kindness. If we show respect to the "heathen", of whatever stripe, we demonstrate to them that we Christians take seriously the Lord's mandate to love all our neighbors. This also allows us to talk with those outside the faith, to "dialogue" [I hate that word] so that we can bring them to a serious and respectful understanding of our Redemption. We hope that eventually these folks will be able to say: "Sheesh. These Christians are really nice people and kind and loving. What is it that makes them behave this way, when OUR people oftentimes don't?" It's convert time!!

The additional question is this: is the Holy Father, perforce of his Roman Pontiff and Universal Bishop status -- not to mention his 'infallibility' in matters of faith and morals -- still subject to the same rules that us ordinary garden-variety Christians are subject to? I mean, if he is the Vicar of Christ on earth, do all the rules apply to him?

To quote the King of Siam: "Is a puzzlement."

Blessings!

Actually, chances are that this is a Roman Catholic Indian woman from the North. Syro-Malankara Catholics are located mostly in the South, and in our culture we don't follow this practice (although the Hindus might). If she is any type of Eastern Catholic, she's probably Syro-Malabar, but I doubt even that. The Indian Roman Catholics, I think, have an "Indian rite" or "Indian use" of the Roman rite which allows for certain inculturated Hindu elements to be introduced into the Liturgy. This does not exist in the Eastern Catholic Churches (that I know of), and not among the Orthodox.

To the Administrator:

Please forgive my "violation", I didn't realize I was breaking a forum policy. My only concern was what I saw. Sorry.

+ Peace,
V

Volodymyr,

Thanks for your post. I know that you did not post with the intention to break the rules.

Might I make a suggestion? Working out one�s own salvation comes before apologetics and the best apologetics is with example and not with words. Working out one�s own salvation includes partaking of wholesome spiritual foods - including what one �eats� on the internet. I highly recommend not �eating� from such websites at all since they routinely twist the truth and can be very disturbing (leaving one with a sour stomach and spirit). Find someone within your own parish community who can serve as both an example of one deeply rooted in the Faith as well as one who can call you to account when it is necessary. I�m sure that your pastor would be more than happy to help you identify such a person. All of us would be better off if we avoided �eating� some of the spiritual unhealthy foods found on the internet under the guise of being Christian.

Admin

AMEN !!!!

I am sure it must apply for the Bishops, even more, specially a Patriarch like John Paul II with so many souls under his care. The Bishops must always be an example of orthodoxy and discipline. However The Church is made eup of humans who err and have mistakes. And there's also one thing, since the ancient Church it has been clear that no priest or person can be forced to cooperate blindly in things that are not for the good of the Church.

Dear brothers and sisters, I have to say that the mark in question was the mark of Shiva. However, whether this has anymore than cultural significance is a pertinent question.

One problem introduced into spiritual life by the ecumenical movement is the move towards interfaith meetings and the subsequent involvement of Christian leaders in pagan ceremonies.

The participation of the Oecumenical patriarch in heathen ceremonies has caused great problems within Orthodoxy, just as the Indian incident has confused Catholics.

However, we do not know the context of some of the events and may hope that there are innocent explinations.

In Christ -
Mark, monk and sinner.

WHOA BABY!

DIDN'T WE ALREADY HAVE THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS SAME TIME LAST YEAR?????

JUST CURIOUS???

I REALLY DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THIS PATH AGAIN!

CAN I GET OFF THE BUS AT THIS STOP???

Dear Friends,

The picture depicts not a Hindu woman but a Christian Indian woman who is giving a blessing to the Pope.

It is a Christianized ceremony taken from the Indian cultural milieu.

It is no more pagan than Christmas trees that we put up for the feast of the Nativity.

As you know, the Christmas tree was a Christianized symbol that AT ONE TIME honoured the Norse oak-god, Wodin.

The fourth day of the week was dedicated to him and was called "Wodin's Day" or "Wednesday" in today's parlance.

The Cross itself was worn about the neck by pagan Assyrian kings, as we see in statues in the British Museum.

The ritual food "Kutya" that Orthodox Christians use during the Nativity Season and at funerals has ancient pagan roots in Indo-European culture and our pagan ancestors used it well before they became Christians.

What I am sometimes amazed at is how we are shocked at the inculturation of Christianity in other cultures while forgetting, at the same time, that much of what is "Christian culture" is simply pagan traditions that have been reinterpreted within a Christian paradigm or "baptized" so to speak.

If we think we can impose (formerly pagan) European civilization on Asia and Africa as the only acceptable "Christian culture" - we are sorely mistaken.

Alex