That pretty much sums it up. I asked our pastor and he said that bc the Roman Catholics are more outward in their penance (Ash Wednesday was the example he used), that is why there are stigmatists. While, in the Eastern rite, bc we are to "put on a happy face" and receive the oil of gladness during our fasting seasons, we do not have any stigmatists. I may not have his wording exactly right, but I think that was the gist of it. For some reason that answer doesn't satisfy my curious mind! So, why not? Even if we approach fasting differently, why would that have anything to do with certain Eastern rite Catholics or Orthodox receiving the stigmata? At least for Eastern rite Catholics, it seems that since we are all Catholic (even if we do worship differently and have different traditions) that there still could be stigmatists regardless of rite. I suppose I'm curious about this bc I'm reading The Dolorous Passion of our Lord by Anne Catherine Emmerich, so I got to thinking about it.
Another thing I wondered was if Our Lady at Fatima asked for people to pray the rosary for the reparation of sins and conversion of sinners, why don't ALL Catholics, regardless of rite, pray the rosary? Our pastor commented to a parishoner that this message was for Latin rite Catholics. That seems odd to me; if we're all Catholics and Mary appeared requesting that we do something, why does it only apply to a certain rite within Catholicism? I'm not familiar with any apparitions or visions by Eastern rite Catholics, but if there was a request from Our Lady to any rite of Catholic, I would be most interested in knowing what it was so I could do my best to do as she has asked- regardless if the visionary/ seer (not sure of the right word here) was Maronite, Byzantine, Latin rite or whatever. So, what is your take on this-- both the stigmata question and certain requests being directed only to Latin rite Catholics? Thanks. Alexis
Another thing I wondered was if Our Lady at Fatima asked for people to pray the rosary for the reparation of sins and conversion of sinners, why don't ALL Catholics, regardless of rite, pray the rosary?
Brother, you got down to the heart of a question I have asked but my Greek Catholic granny (GCG) has not many times!
That is to say GCG doesn't worry about all that. Mary told people to pray the Rosary to deliver the homeland from communism (well not in those words...) and that is what she did.
Dare I be so bold as to suggest parties that feel the same can easily be found in any nation, country, or rite. Strictly speaking, I don't think that matter is a "ritual sui juris church question".
If you have been given the grace to pray the Rosary, pray it!
What is the OCA's view of stigmata or other modern manifestations of Jesus or Mary? I would appreciate both a theological answer, and official Church position, if there is one.
ANSWER:
Stigmata, such as manifested in Padre Pio, are foreign to the Orthodox experience and, as such, the Church has no official position in this regard. There have been, however, such phenomena as weeping icons and the like within the Orthodox world. In such cases an investigation is undertaken to ascertain the legitimacy of such things, and the Church is generally cautious in immediately proclaiming them to be miracles.
My personal opinion is that such things indeed may be signs from God, or they could be deceptions or distractions from the devil, but that if one remains focused on Christ one should not make too much of them. The real miracle in such instances is found, not in the phenomena themselves, but, rather, in the repentance and changed lives that they inspire. As St John of Kronstadt says, "Lord, I am a miracle of Thy goodness and wisdom and love."
In other words, one should not allow such things to overshadow the attention that is due God and God alone, nor to allow such things to become more central to life than the Gospel.
Officially the view is neutral because these manifestations are not part of the Orthodox tradition. Some probably have a positive view, and some like Bishop Ignaty Brianchaninov have a less than positive view.
To directly answer your question, there indeed were Eastern Catholic stigmatists. In the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, Steven Navrotsky is one who comes to mind.
There were more in western Ukraine and Met. Andrew Sheptytsky actually appointed several priests who investigated such cases.
One such investigator was our former parish priest, the Rev. Fr. Petro Khomyn, who at one point was the editor of our eparchial newspaper (and with whom my grandfather served in the parish of Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Toronto).
One case Fr. Khomyn told me about, there was a very pious young girl who when she meditated on Christ's Passion, began to bleed from the hands and feet and also from her side. As her meditation continued, an actual form of what looked like a crown of thorns appeared on her forehead!
He himself said that such things needed to be investigated closely as they don't necessarily have to be from "above."
In fact, the Latin Church is so careful about these things that even the great St. Padre Pio has NOT been declared a Stigmatist as yet. There is a church being built in his honour here and I was privileged to venerate the Relic of one of his gloves with which he covered his bleeding hands. The main gift of Padre Pio to the Church is his witness and call to unceasing prayer and his prayer groups are dedicated to precisely that (he could pray 20, 30 or even 40 complete 15 decade rosaries per day - and if I had a dollar for every person I've met who knows someone who was miraculously cured through his intercession, I'd be quite wealthy!).
One natural explanationi for there not being too many stigmatist-Saints in the East is that Eastern spirituality, in the main, does not like to dwell on the terrible and graphic sufferings of Christ on the Cross.
Eastern Crosses do, of course, depict Christ on the Cross, but not in the graphic way one finds in Western Crucifixes. The Cross of San Damiano, much honoured in the West and by Franciscans, is an example of a Byzantine-style icon cross. On it, we see Christ portrayed larger than anyone else and depicted in such a manner that we know He is Master of the situation, even though He has voluntarily submitted Himself to the Cross. And the icon of the Resurrection, never separated from the Crucifixion in the East, is above His Head with the Hand of the Father.
St Tikhon of Zadonsk, an Orthodox Saint of the "Baroque" period, was deeply devoted to the Passion of Christ and actually had life-size icons of Christ carrying His Cross on the way to Calvary in his cell (he promoted meditation on the Passion of Christ, the Jesus Prayer, reading of the Gospels and frequent Communion).
Suffice it to say that in Orthodox hagiography there is no category for "Stigmatists."
As for the Rosary, it is simply untrue that the recitation of 150 Hail Mary's in decades, each headed with an Our Father, is not part of the Orthodox tradition - it most certainly is.
"Staretz Zechariah: An Early Soviet Saint" chapter six outlines the practices of several Orthodox saints who prayed what in the West would be called the Rosary daily and expected their spiritual children to pray it daily too (the full 15 decades together with different meditations on the life of the Theotokos). The 2003 "Encyclopedia of Orthodoxy" also outlines this prayer and affirms that St Seraphim of Sarov received a revelation from the Most Holy Mother of God that this daily private devotion is most important to Her as a sure means of invoking and securing Her Protection on our lives.
The Orthodox nuns at Diveyevo in Russia daily go around their monastery three times praying this Rule of prayer. According to St Seraphim of Sarov and other Orthodox saints, this life-giving prayer was revealed to a monk of the Thebaid in the 8th century and "at one time, all Christians prayed it daily."
In Eastern Catholic Churches, the Rosary as such is widely received and prayed, taken directly from the Latin Catholics.
However, I've been to at least one Armenian Cathedral where, in the parking lot, each and every car had a Western Rosary dangling from their rear-view mirrors - I mean EVERY car had as I carefully checked this out.
With respect to Fatima, Catholics should remember that this is a controversial devotion with respect to the East. Fatima groups and movements in the past, and now, have understood the message there to mean they must ensure that Orthodox Russia is "converted" to Roman Catholicism or brought into union with Rome.
In fact, Our Lady at Fatima NEVER said that, there is no reference of any sort like that from her from the Seers of Fatima.
She only spoke about the flourishing of religious life in Russia following the fall of communism.
As one Orthodox priest who believes in Fatima once told me, this has been fulfilled in Russia, the Churches are full, devotional life abounds and the Holy Orthodox Christian Church grows by leaps and bounds (which is all absolutely true).
Even later Catholic apparitions of our Lady report that she tells people that "it is in Russia that I will be glorified the most."
The Rosary is widely spread among EC's, many of whom go on to have it said publicly in Church (which is not our tradition at all).
On Orthodox Mt Athos, monks say the 150 Hail Mary's daily, adding to each prayer a prostration to the ground.
Alex
Last edited by Orthodox Catholic; 02/12/0810:00 AM.
Slightly off-topic, since it is churches of the byzantine rite that are being discussed here. I stumbled upon this video clip on youtube yesterday which features a Malankara Orthodox stigmatist nun:
Perhaps our Syrian rite posters will be in a better position to comment, but I found it really remarkable how "latin-oriented" her spirituality appears to be. Is this typical of the Malankara Orthodox?
An Eastern Catholic priest once told me that the sign of the stigmata is given to West. The East has always been given saints who become bathed in the uncreated light (ie:St Seraphim of Seraphim).
So this priest was saying that the stigmata and the uncreated light are two different manifestations of the same gift.
On Orthodox Mt Athos, monks say the 150 Hail Mary's daily, adding to each prayer a prostration to the ground.
Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God, Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb. For thou hast borne the Saviour, of our souls.
Recently I've began to seriously wonder about the effects of the prayers for the conversion of Russia that were requested by Our Lady Of Fatima. from everything I've read and people I've been in contact with, I'm coming to the conclusion that Russia is moving towards Christ and that America is moving away from Christ. We better start including for the conversion of America in that prayer.
Well Dr Alex, a few times I've had people tell me that Russia hasen't changed at all because they're Orthodox and not Catholic, to which I reply "It's a zillion times better to be Orthodox than Communist"
I would tell those Catholics that they could learn a few things from the Orthodox regarding:
Fasting like you mean it;
Venerating our Lady and the Saints;
A prayer life that isn't ashamed of making the Sign of the Cross more than a few times, making prostrations and praying longer than ten-20 minutes;
And so on.
If Russia became Catholic, it might become like the UGCC - always trying to be more Catholic than the Pope, shortening its liturgies and otherwise trying to imitate the RC's (unless how else to justify the title "Catholic?").
Those Catholics have NO idea what the Orthodox are about.
The idea of "not becoming holier than the pope" was used against the people of the Los Angeles Archdiocese by many of their teachers, and so now LA has the so-called liturgical dancing girls, clown masses, and revolutionary masses where every parish has a different style with no uniformity -- this at the request of Cardinal Mahony.
Therefore people are afraid of becoming saints or fear any display of piety as a sign of false humility. As a result, humility and sanctity are tossed out the window as being impossible even to attempt during this life time.
I guess the better question to ask is why so few of us attain the stage of theosis that St. Dominic and St. Seraphim of Sarov attained, where the Holy Light of Christ emanated from them and where thousands around those saints became saints too.
Oh, reading the lives of these two saints gives the clue to their sanctity:
(1) Both spent countless evenings without sleep in prayer and prostrations.
(2) Both loved all men even men who hated them, and all men sought their prayers. Muslims, Catholics, and Jews visited St. Seraphim of Sarov who would not turn them away.
(3) Both fasted more strictly than the Church recommended.
(4) Both radiated the joy of the Lord to all they met. St. Seraphim greeted all with: "My joy, Christ has risen" even in the middle of Great Lent.
(5) Both corrected people with great kindness and humility and with no show of arrogance.
(6) Both preferred to pray to the Lord, think about the Lord, and talk about the Lord.
(7) Both were forgiving and loved the Lord their God with all their hearts, with all their minds, and with all their souls.
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