www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Why are there no Eastern Catholic/ Orthodox Stigmatists?

Blessed Mariam of Christ Crucified was Melkite and a stigmatist.
http://www.melkite.org/sa33.htm

Glory to God! I've only run across that Synaxarion in Church-Slavonic. Glad to see that it's available in English - thanks for posting it.

Fr. Serge

That was a good quote.

I wonder if a lot of this also has to do with what people focus on. Catholic saints often focus on the suffering and death of Jesus Christ, and a few of them developed the stigmata. Eastern Christian saints often focus on the Uncreated Light, and a few of them (I believe) sometimes glowed. Etc.

-- John

John,

Regarding your post, I personally think that is an absolutely brilliant and AWESOME explanation...I will remember it...and yes, you are correct about glowing--St. Seraphim of Sarov comes to mind.

Regards,
Alice

(Sometimes the wisest thoughts come from humble layman like you who are not yoked with prejudices and other religious baggage)

St. Dominic Guzman (founder of the Dominican Order) also glowed with the Holy Light. His forehead radiated light.

Without being one to toss cold water on anyone's question, I wonder if being so fixed on these extraordinary manifestations is not a distraction from what we are really all about as Catholic and Orthodox Christians?

There are those who collect everything one can imagine related to extraordinary manifestations, forgetting that one ought to be wary since the Enemy can cloak himself as an angel of light: people collect holy oil, holy water, icons, relics--you name it. And while these holy things are a means to draw us into the realization that the Incarnation sanctified everything that we have and that nothing created is a bad thing since God took on His own creation, they are not the end of our Christian life. These things ought not to distract us from the concentration on building our own relationship with Christ. Frankly, some people get jealous because they don't have the same gift. Others fall into the trap of thinking that WITHOUT these things one is not pleasing to God. I remember the admonition of the Desert Fathers that a virtue well-known is quickly destroyed because of th attention that is drawn to it and the resultant trap of prideful thinking that it is one's own doing. Any one of these external manifestations is an immense trial to the one to whom it is given. It can be a destroyer of one's virtues, especially humility rightly understood and practiced.

The greatest miracle of all happens every Sunday in the Apostolic Churches and it draws a yawn: the changing of bread and wine into the Life-giving Holy Body and Most Precious Bloood of Our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

I'll spend more time on wondering about these other things when I've spent enough time in awe of this miracle--which won't be in this lifetime.

In Christ,

BOB

Dear Theophan,

Have you read the life of St. Seraphim of Sarov?

He said that we are all called to theosis and that we should all radiate the Holy Light of Christ.

Lord save us for we perish.

In Christ,
Elizabeth

Maybe the Seal of the Gift of the Holy Spirit is not to be hidden, but becomes reality in those who have reached theosis.

No doubt it does! I just invite, like some others here, consideration that how it is manifested may vary.

I agree with you, Bob; the greatest miracle is most definitely the consecration and our reception of Our Lord in Holy Communion. But, I don't see that there is any problem and reading/ learning about anything related to the faith. I'm sure it is possible to become fixated on sacramentals and other things, but I don't think curiosity in itself or a desire to learn is necessarily a fixation or problematic. Interest in saints, miracles, apparitions of Our Lady, and anything else related to our faith does not detract nor distract from the miracle of the consecration or from Christ at all. When I hear that, I think of how protestants feel that giving Mary honor and our prayers is somehow "short changing" Christ and diminishing Him- which is silly. Learning about our faith, whether it be a fundamental doctrine or a seemingly small matter all lends itself to a fuller and richer understanding of what God has revealed to us.
Alexis

I think that what happens w/stigmata and glowing, etc. is that the person has become so incredibly united w/God in a particular and extraordinary way (crucifixion in the West; Resurrection in the East, as John/Harmon said), that the level of theosis they have reached gives them this manifestations....

I have heard of saints who have levitated in prayer in church or walked on air...another manifestation of a unique union w/the Creator that most of us will never fathom in this world.

So, while these saints display these manifestations, they do not want to have others see them and to fuss over them. They do not want to feel special because of them... I believe that they are uniquely personal and not really for the edification of others...St. Padre Pio hid his stigmata; saints that have levitated have been embarrassed to have been seen; In St. Seraphim's case, he was once asked about his heavenly glow, and the saint told the person that he too can glow in the Holy Spirit.

That being said, what definitely IS for our edification is the Holy Eucharist, as my fellow Moderator Bob so eloquently said.

Just my own humble thoughts,
Alice

In a related news tidbit, Pope Benedict XVI has dedicated a piece of the Vatican to St. Gregory the Illuminator.

Can anyone confirm that Blessed Pavel Gojdich, the martyred Rusyn Greek Catholic bishop from Prjashev Eparchy, showed signs of the Stigmata the last days of his life?

Ung

"Without being one to toss cold water on anyone's question, I wonder if being so fixed on these extraordinary manifestations is not a distraction from what we are really all about as Catholic and Orthodox Christians?

WOW! Theophan has hit the nail on the head - and I'd urge everyone to go back and read his full posting.

During this time of Great Lent, we are supposed to be focusing on our own souls and how we fulfill the Lord's mandate to love God to the best of our ability and to care for our neighbors as ourselves. It's time for heavy-duty examination of conscience; it's time to give (secretly) to the needy; to read Scripture and the liturgical texts to learn what the elders are passing on.

Focusing on what is happening to other people is a distraction - and as Bob pointed out - an opportunity for one-upsmanship.

I sometimes wonder what is going on in the souls of those who are focused on the "externalia". If one truly gets 'into' the spirit of Lent, it would seem that worrying about much of anything but one's own soul and its salvation would be a failing in following the pathway given to us for the Great Lent.

Perhaps some discussion on how to give to a food bank, or a homeless shelter without being identified? How to practice abnegation and fasting in a contemporary working world without putting one's health at risk? What kind of prayer practices can be practically used when working a full day (or more) at a desk/cubicle? How can one get the message of Christ out joyfully to other people/colleagues without turning into a black-clad nerd? What are the boundaries of "acting Byzantine" so that folks see the practices as "from a Christian heart" as opposed to some ethnic or hyper-religious source? (Evangelization, folks!!) How should one observe the fast in Tex-Mexia (I'm living in a hotel in Houston) where everything except one's coffee is meat and BBQ with cheese and sour cream? [One can only eat so many bean burritos before co-workers within a 50' radius begin to complain.] What practical methods have folks found to "come down" from work at the end of the day to enter into the prayer/examination of soul that Lent is all about? Are there external, non-traditional practices that can enhance the Lenten mindset of being ready for the Lord's arrival? What about not undressing and sleeping on top of the bed so that upon awakening, one remembers that the Lord could have come during the night? Are there others?

This is not the same as the Rapturists - and their driverless car bumper sticker. Although I admit I appreciate the response sticker: "When the Rapture comes, can I have your truck?"

It's all about the salvation of one's own soul. What is happening to others should be off the radar screen. It's your soul and Christ, with the prudent advice of your priest and/or spiritual advisor.

Blessings to all!

Dr John, Not the Rock Star

My problem is that I've tried to do this but the people keep sending me "thank you" notes. I've asked that they just take the donations, but . . . You can deliver them in person but after awhile they track you down to find out who you are.

BOB