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The problem: dorms don't allow incense! I guess I could just say it's for religious reasons, and they can't argue that? Tips?

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Originally Posted by Tom Lyman
The problem: dorms don't allow incense! I guess I could just say it's for religious reasons, and they can't argue that? Tips?

If you are in a dorm, they may think you are smoking wacky weed. wink biggrin

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No specific procedure is laid down by any body of law with which I am familiar. So try this:

Step 1) gather some like-minded people and start praying together regularly, doing reader's service at first.

Step 2) Go slow!

Step 3) See if you can find a friendly priest willing to stop in on an occasional basis, hear Confessions, and serve Divine Liturgy (this requires locating a suitable venue and acquiring some liturgical equipment. It also require learning to sing some music).

Step 4) GO SLOW!

Step 5) gradually and unobtrusively become acquainted with several of the Greek-Catholic jurisdictions (this will mean some field trips, and perhaps arranging to invite various people to come to "lecture" about this and that. Do attend a Melkite Convention - they're enjoyable and interesting and a good place to meet people.

Step 6) GO SLOW! (yes, I sound like a broken record. But you know the old saying: marry at haste; repent and leisure).

Step 7) make an appointment for a small group of people to meet with a likely-looking bishop. If he won't meet with you, you certainly don't want to meet with him!

Step 8) with an innocent look on your face, ask the Bishop what is the best way to go about organizing a mission, or something of that sort, and is there a priest who could come at reasonably regular intervals.

At that point, you should be able to tell if the Bishop is taking you seriously and if he seems generally inclined to accept the idea. A bit of research ahead of time should help you prepare for what topics to discuss and what topics to avoid.

Somewhere along the line, see if you can incorporate yourselves in some way (this varies from state to state), and arrange to open a bank account - start making regular donations and keeping an honest, transparent set of books.

And so on. That's the best I can think of at the immediate moment.

Fr. Serge

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Originally Posted by tjm199
...if you quiz 100 Roman Catholics about Eastern Catholicism, most of them will have no idea what you are talking about. And ask them about the Ambrosian Rite in the Roman Church. Most don't even know about that...it sure would be nice if there was at least one lesson in Catechism class about the Ambrosian Rite and Eastern Churches.

To answer that: YES! I wish there were as well. And not only is there the Ambrosian Rite, you can't forget about the Trindentine Rite, the Franciscan Rite, and the Mozarab Rite (which is an absolutely stunning Spanish fusion of Western Latin tradition with Arab liturgical practice when they were under the Al-Andulus Caliphate).

To update everyone: I'm still not sure if I want to be full fledged Melkite. I have yet to attend a Divine Liturgy, but after investigating more over the months and after attending Ruthenian-Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy I see the "Light of the East" as some like to put it. The Eastern Churches hold a special place in my heart and I thank God they are part of the Catholic Church. I have decided that sometime in the near future, I would like to start practicing in one of the Eastern traditions (whichever one becomes most accessible) and just learning more about it. If I stay, I stay. If the Spirit does not will it then so be it. Either way, I know this process will bring me closer to God. What more could one ask for?

(Oh, and have a blessed Lent everyone!)

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A Good Lent to you too. Is anyone interested in organizing an Old-Ritualist Greek-Catholic parish?

Fr. Serge

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The problem: dorms don't allow incense! I guess I could just say it's for religious reasons, and they can't argue that? Tips?

Yes, they can. It is a fire code hazard. I remember from my student days that candles and burning incense was forbidden in all university residences.

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I would just like to throw in my two cents that I agree with robster's points earlier. Just in case anyone thinks he's alone in thinking what he does.

Alexis

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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
A Good Lent to you too. Is anyone interested in organizing an Old-Ritualist Greek-Catholic parish?

Fr. Serge

Father bless!

If I were a priest, I wouldn't mind serving them... But here's a problem: I don't speak or know any Russian. Is that ok? All I know is, I'm a fool for Christ smile.

PS: Are there Old-Ritualist Melkites?

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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
A Good Lent to you too. Is anyone interested in organizing an Old-Ritualist Greek-Catholic parish?

Fr. Serge


Where did you have in mind?

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Originally Posted by Tom Lyman
The problem: dorms don't allow incense! I guess I could just say it's for religious reasons, and they can't argue that? Tips?


You go incense free!

When it has to be done, it has to be done. Sometimes the circumstances demand it. Outdoor liturgy is always possible too.

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Originally Posted by robster
Tom,

I'm technically a Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic who is in the process (I trust) of being officially received into the Roman Latin Church.

As one who, also, genuinely enjoys the Divine Liturgies of Chrysostom and Basil, I would respectfully ask you to give a degree of reconsideration to your proposed move and some thought as to what your religious identity as a Catholic entails.

In theory at least, my understanding has always been that all Catholics of all stripes are called upon to affirm all solemnly defined Catholic elements of faith and morals as part of their Catholic faith. That is something, as I understand it, that is distinct from disciplinary practices, such as infant communion.

What does it mean to you to be a Catholic? For me, while I genuinely relish Byzantine Catholic worship and certainly have my disappointments with the travails of what Roman Latin worship has endured during the past 40 years, for me, an affirmation of Catholicism has been centered on what the Church teaches and stands for, its witness to the world, and the venue it affords me to lead a life devoted to the good, true, and beautiful in mind, spirit, and body.

Unfortunately, my experience as a Byzantine Catholic has been one of real disappointment and my increasing understanding and awareness of the levels of lack of assent to Church teaching that appear to presently exist in much or most of the Eastern Catholicisms is something that I find troubling.

Based on what I know and have read and been informed about, it appears that Byzantine Melkite Catholicism, in particular, is a brand of Eastern Catholicism that is particularly virulent in these troubling areas.

What does it mean to you to be a Catholic? I would respectfully call upon you to please ponder that question extensively in all of its implications before you finalize a decision to make such a move.

Best,
Robster
Hey Tom. I know exactly what you are talking about. I attend a Ruthenian Catholic Church that, for the most part is faithful to the magesterium. However, my experience of Eastern Catholicism on the net and through out the country has been similar to yours. Many of the Eastern Catholic Churches officially and explicitly reject many of the teahings of the Catholic Church. It is this very matter that has prevented me from changing cannonical status to match that of my parish.

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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
A Good Lent to you too. Is anyone interested in organizing an Old-Ritualist Greek-Catholic parish?

Fr. Serge

That would be fantastic!!! smile

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Robster wrote:
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Unfortunately, my experience as a Byzantine Catholic has been one of real disappointment and my increasing understanding and awareness of the levels of lack of assent to Church teaching that appear to presently exist in much or most of the Eastern Catholicisms is something that I find troubling.

Alexis wrote:
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I would just like to throw in my two cents that I agree with robster's points earlier. Just in case anyone thinks he's alone in thinking what he does.

I do not share these opinions. It seems to me that there is an an attempt (in good faith) on the part of many Eastern Catholics to adhere to the documents of the Second Vatican Council concerning the Eastern Catholic Churches. In so doing they are challenging the beliefs many of us have had about the status of the Eastern Catholic Churches within the Catholic Communion, especially regarding the issues of authority and jurisdiction. While, in my opinion, they sometimes take things too far (e.g. the issues of papal infallibility or universal jurisdiction) I think it is, nevertheless, done in good faith. As well, we Latin Catholics should also realize that the Eastern Patriarchs (Melkites excepted), for what ever reason, have not always used their prerogatives to their fullest until recently. At the same, time the Eastern Catholics should realize that what makes them Catholic is their willing submission to the Holy Father as Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church (Western & Eastern). Furthermore, until such time as there are official clarifications on such matters I think we will continue to debate them.

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Excellent points, Byzantinophile; certainly with the sacrifices the Eastern Catholics have made with millions of martyrs in the last century, some of them now beatified they have nothing to prove in their fidelity to their respective Unions.

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Many of the Eastern Catholic Churches officially and explicitly reject many of the teahings of the Catholic Church.

You are going to have to do better than this with such a severe and dangerous accusation; furthermore if you believe as such how can you attend an Eastern Catholic Church and risk complicity?

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Originally Posted by Diak
Excellent points, Byzantinophile; certainly with the sacrifices the Eastern Catholics have made with millions of martyrs in the last century, some of them now beatified they have nothing to prove in their fidelity to their respective Unions.

East and West wrote
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Many of the Eastern Catholic Churches officially and explicitly reject many of the teahings of the Catholic Church.

You are going to have to do better than this with such a severe and dangerous accusation; furthermore if you believe as such how can you attend an Eastern Catholic Church and risk complicity?
I will supply information to support my accusations later tonight when I get home. As for my parish, I would say there is no denial of Catholic dogma. My pastor was raised Latin, switched cannonical status, and eventually became a Ruthenian priest. He knows and teaches what the Church teaches.

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