www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Munhall Cathedral Rumor...

My parish has 6 to 8 people show up every week. I'm one of them. Father has the farthest drive of anyone, still it is held every week. There is simply no excuse for the BCC to not do the same.

I am glad you feel your practice superior. I am glad the 6 to 8 of you that attend are able to do so. I am glad that your priest can make that sacrifice.

Sorry if we don't make excuses - acceptable to you or otherwise.

Why is this continually brought against us as "Exhibit F" in the ongoing trial to somehow demonstrate we are ersatz easterners?

(Exhibits A, B, C, D, & E all being used for the other decried situations...)

I'm sure that many OCA and other Orthodox people are far flung and whatnot, but the point is the services are always held. It's not up for debate. It's the Byzantine tradition. If you choose to call Byzantine Catholics as "Ersatz", maybe they are. Sort of a cafeteria mentality. We'll take this and this, but not this or this.

Rome keeps telling the EC's to be authentic. Why aren't they?

And Monomakh, where did you get that list of parishes? Saint Barbaras in Dayton has been closed for years and there is no Saint Josephs Byzantine in Toledo.

We aren't because you say we aren't? By Etnick's standards we fall short?

I don't choose it, these insults and monikers - I accept that is how those with a view to look down on us - often smugly - will put it. And boy do they.

I am happy for you who are located "Where we say men and mankind" that you have found the true fullness of Byzantine praxis by your standards. I wish you well and hope that you flourish and grow in holiness.

I really just cannot take a lot more of ByzCath during our Great Lent though. Some time off may be needed. I love the BCC and on here the way some are taking every opportunity to insult the Byzantine Catholics is just sad. Though it seems to be well accepted and allowable.

It is constant snyde mark and barb and criticism, one right after another, by folks inside and out... I just don't get what the attraction is to focus this VERY negative attention on our small church is all about.

The Eparchy of Parma's current website lists 35 parishes. 3 have Vespers, 2 have Vesperal Liturgies, 3 of the preceding also have Matins.

St. John Cathedral, Parma, OH: Vesperal Liturgy and Matins
St. Mary, Cleveland, OH: Vesperal Liturgy
St. John, Columbus, OH: Vespers
St. Nicholas, Lorain, OH: Vespers and Matins
St. Emilian, Brunswick, OH: Vespers and Matins

The Eparchy of Van Nuys website lists 19 parishes. 3 have Vespers, 1 has Vesperal Liturgy.

St. Stephen Pro-cathedral, Phoenix, AZ: Vesperal Liturgy
St. Thomas, Gilbert, AZ: Vespers
Holy Angels, San Diego, CA: Vespers
Our Lady of Pepetual Help, Albuquerque, NM: Vespers and Matins

Etnick, for an Orthodox Christian, I think you pay too much attention to Rome!


What ever gave you the idea that EC's are not authentic?

I think the EC's are quite authentic.

Just like the RC's are authentic.

Come to think of it,
the Orthodox and the Protestants are authentic also,
and in much the same way.

Sometimes we do what Rome does, even when not told to do so.

Sometimes, we stick to our ways, even if told otherwise.

Sometimes, we just ignore Rome. (just like RC's)


We're just like the Orthodox !

We ignore Rome as well as you do !

Maybe better !



PS: To paraphrase "The Onion Dome":

"... to ignore Rome,

now, THAT is the Tradition."

Alright, here we go:

Byzantine ritual and how it is practiced is not held up to "my" standards. I only know that my parish celebrates the full cycle of services. I really don't care what the Byzantine Catholic Churches do or don't do. I'm not a member of it anymore. However, until a short time ago, I was, and after being in the Orthodox church, I somehow feel like I was cheated out of the full praxis of the East, even though I WAS in an Eastern church from baptism.

A friend of mine suggested to their BC priest that they do the Great Canon for the fast. His response was "but that's Orthodox"! . How is this being faithful to Eastern tradition? Unless it's liturgy, we're not doing it.

I still don't see why the Eastern Catholic churches are afraid to be fully Eastern.

Annunciation is in the Eparchy pf Parma and we have Vespers, Matins, Pre-Sanctified Liturgy and the Canon of St. Andrew of Crete. Just to add to that list.

Well, it's kind of like the wreck on the highway, you just gotta look at it!

I went to 'St. Barbara's' in Dayton a little over a year ago. My wife's brother in law lives in Dayton and I wanted to check it out. It ended up being for Saturday evening liturgy and at a Roman Catholic church that they use, so yes their isn't a building they do have something going on. If they've closed since then I'm unaware of it.

Saint Joseph's in Toledo was a mistype, my bad.

Monomakh

Wow! Your parish is obviously the exception to the rule. How did this all come about?

Fr. Tom, plain and simple. He truly has a passion for being very authentic and doing things the "rite" way. OK no more lame jokes from me...

I hope that a spitting contest over this won't ensue, but Vespergy isn't what I would count in this list.

And if you run the numbers that Deacon Lance found and put them with Passaic and Pittsburgh, and the UGCC and Melkites, I don't think that my estimated 90% would be that far off. The good news is that 20 years ago the Vespers numbers were even less, so while a lot, and I mean a lot, must be done, it actually is better.

Monomakh

Iam asking the same question!!!