www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Patriarch Lubomyr

Happy Birthday!

I thought that the Successor of Peter, who is "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful" (CCC), who is the touchstone of unity in the Catholic Church, and who appoints men to the sacred Cardinalate, does not recognise His Beatitude as a Patriarch. Metropolitan yes, Patriarch no. Are we Catholic when convenient, but not at other times?

I just don't know what has gotten into me the last couple of days. Ducking for cover....

Fr David Straut

The UGCC considers him to be Patriarch, and he is quite often commemorated that way at services in the UGCC. They reason that Rome will "get around" to recognizing it (the only sticking point being that Rome doesn't want to further infuriate Patriarch Alexei, whose prior KGB connections don't sit too well with Ukrainians).

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

Mnohaya Lita to our Holy Father and Patriarch, His Holiness Lubomyr of Kyiv-Halych and all Rus'-Ukraine!

As for Fr. Straut's comment on the title of Patriarch and its non-recognition by Rome, something very similar occurs in Orthodoxy, such as with the Russian Orthodox Church, when it declared itself to be a Patriarchate and maintained itself as such until Orthodoxy world-wide accepted it as such.

In this, we like to follow the Russian lead!

Many years to our Patriarch and may he realize the dream of one Orthodox-Catholic Church of Kyiv.

Alex

All this I understand. But what I don't understand is that since the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, why some Catholics don't think they are bound to think with the Church. If one doesn't attach any particular importance to papal recognition, there are alternatives. Seems to me that Ukrainian Catholics only want to be Catholic when it suits them.

Fr David Straut

Dear Alex,

I am well aware of what occurs in Orthodoxy. The point is that Ukrainian Catholics are not Orthodox. What distinguishes them from their Orthodox compatriots is their submission to Rome, the Barque of Peter, the Holy See, the Vicar of Christ, etc. The Holy Father refuses to recognise the erection of a Patriarchate. You have some legitimate recourse. Reason with him, plead with him, bargain with him, but do not disobey him. He is what makes you Catholic rather than Orthodox.

By the way, Alex, a small observation. In the Orthodox Church, if not throughout the Christian East, it is not customary to address priests by pairing the honourific 'Father' with their family name. I am Fr David, or Fr David Straut, not Fr Straut. This is a Latin usage. You would not wish to appear Latin, would you?

Fr David

Dear Fr. David,

Let's just say that, as a people, Ukrainians tend to be "strong-willed". I can write books on that issue.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

Ukrainian Catholics only want to be Catholic when it suits them.

Fr David Straut

[/quote]

Watch what you ask for. B16 asked the Eastern Churches to revive their ancient past witness. Unfortunately he did not specify when that was. For the Ukrainians was it as their counterreformation developed under Mohyla, before the Union or during the mission of Saints Cyril and Methodius when the Rus� were neither pure Byzantines nor their Latin neighbors pure Roman and often an amalgamation of both operated within the same monastery. If this is to be seen as during the iconoclast heresy northern migration when Rome was only consulted when troublesome perspectives could not be resolved locally, and they invited Rome to resolve the controversy with �Peter has spoken�. It was as requested or when they �only want to be Catholic when it suites them�.

His Beatitude was commemorated as Patriarch in the presence of the Servant of God Pope John Paul II during the Divine Liturgy for the beatification of the Greek Catholic New Martrys on June 27, 2001.

Indeed, Griego - certainly no verbal or written warning against using the term (three different times publicly in his presence, I believe) was encurred.


Some Catholics also wait for this or that saint to be beatified and do not cease to pray for their intercession in spite of the lack of recognition. That does not imply they are Catholic when it suits them, nor that any inherent disobedience to Rome is present. While certainly being in communion with Rome, we are the particular Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and need to act as a particular Church.

I think being proactive is the best way of being recognized as a mature sui iuris church for the establishment of the Patriarchate. We in the UGCC have restored consecrating our own bishops through the Synod without having Rome select them on our own; we were not told to restore this, or begged permission, but we did it after the resurrection of the Church from the catacombs of the Soviet era. We also were not told to restore the practice of optional priestly celibacy in the diaspora, but have done that as well. One step at a time.

Rome herself has spoken that the patriarchate is a traditional form of ecclesiastical government and should be erected where there is need - certainly the largest Eastern Catholic church has the need.
FDRLB

Under current canons, the erection of a patriarchate for an Eastern Catholic Church sui iuris by the Supreme Authority in the Catholic Church requires, as Fr. Dcn. Randy stated above, a "need" for it. No question about that!

However, there is another requirement in tandem with it: the determination by the Pope if it is the "opportune time" to erect or approve such patriarchal status.

Non-action by Rome on the decision by the Holy Synod to elevate the UGCC into a Patriarchate tends to point to the absence of such an "opportune time!" Not yet, anyway!

Amado

Father David:

Father bless!!

The other consideration of the use of the term "patriarch" is that in the West it isn't given the thought that it carries in the East--another area where we approach the same thing from radically different points of view. There is a Patriarch of Venice and his title might as well be archbishop. We have a metropolitan in Pennsylvania and this title is an afterthought because it means nothing outside his own archdiocese. He can't even offer advice to another bishop without the other bishop asking for it. IMHO, Rome doesn't "get it" when they talk about the titles: that is, in the same way as the Eastern Churches. You can give the man the title and commemorate him as such in the Liturgy but it's when the Liturgy is over and we begin to talk about administering anything except the man's own eparchy that you get Rome's attention. And then it's "thumbs down." In a way, it might be said, with all due respect, that Rome doesn't "get it" as far as relating to the Eastern Catholics already in communion and that speaks volumes about how relations with the Orthodox can become strained so quickly--and they scratch their heads as to why.

We haven't yet gotten around to how we implement the Vatican II directives to recover ancient traditions in concrete terms.

We've also got to watch and see if His Beatitude is granted retirement since he must now submit his resignation upon reaching his 75th birthday as required by the Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches. Whether His Holiness will accept it . . .

Asking for your blessing and continued holy prayers,

BOB

Bob,

Do you know if HB Lubomyr's two predecessors, HB Josyf and HB Myroslaw, submitted their resignations at age 75? I know they both served beyond that age ...


Peace,
Deacon Richard

I do know that he is legally blind. That my inspire Rome to "give him a push".

Dn. Robert

Deacon Richard:

I don't know. The Pope can accept the letter or just leave it alone, depending on his wish. So it's anyone's guess what may or may not happen.

I know that there are many people who are still going strong long past 75 and there are others who are glad to retire early due to health. I've always wondered about why they chose 75, but I'm not privy to the thinking of those who determined the age requirement.

Actually, though I have no reason for a comment either way, I think if the Synod wants him to stay, Rome should allow him to stay on as long as he wants. He is the recognized leader of his own sui juris Church and ought to be treated as such. But my opinion and a quarter will probably only get you a few minutes on a parking meter.

BOB

Amen!