www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Pew Study on American Religion

Unfortunately, I also known some BCCs who have gone into the Orthodox Church, where they could not handle the Church politics, especially the parish council setup. And believe it or not, they found that they had become quite devoted to the Pope, and felt guilty, so they went to the Roman Catholic Church, where the Novus Ordo Mass drove them batty. Then they finally lost the faith in the Eucharist because of the lack of devotion they encountered in the Los Angeles Archdiocese, so they went into the Protestant Church and roamed from one protestant sect to another. Now they are truly Roamin' Catholics.

So the protestants have this joke here in Los Angeles.

How do you spell ex-Catholic
R-O-A-M-I-N Catholic

I say this not to put my Catholic friends on the defensive, but to share the sad truth about what is happening.

We Orthodox Christians are losing a lot of people too. My parish has lost about 30 people a year and this year we might have to sell our parish and disband because we cannot keep the doors open any longer with a $500+ deficit every Sunday.

Part of it, to be sure, is piss poor record keeping. Mostly, though it is a lack of consistency in liturgy, so I hear, and certainly a lack of evangelical passion. It goes back to a lack of focus by our...

I really encourage us all to encourage and pray for each other.

CDL

It is a rather astounding number that one in ten Americans is a former Catholic. That is not a particular indictment of that church, as I'm sure the Orthodox church in this country has over time lost immense numbers of people as well. Obviously in both churches there are exceptions and places where there is growth and improvement, but there is a lot to be concerned over.

I think one of the main issues, if not the main issue, that plagues both churches is nominalism. Meaning a nominal interest in faith, and the relegation of it to a Sunday morning activity or a familial association. I believe many (though obviously not all) Protestant denominations grow and thrive because they provide an ethos and framework that is the antithesis of nominalism and one that encourages personal responsibility and ongoing conversion.

Contributors to this thread are asked to consider the points raised in my two notes captioned "DEMOGRAPHICS" in the Parish Life and Evangelization (correct name?) forum. My impression is that we have a great deal of anecdotal evidence of some distressing trends in the Eastern Churches in North America. I hope we can find someone who has dug deeper and can tell us how serious the problem of declining numbers is for Eastern Catholics and for other Eastern Christians, what the causes of that problem might be, and what might be done to revitalize our churches.

That sounds like a publishable project.

Bingo. I agree, Andrew. Buiding on that, here is the more astounding statistic (in my opinion) from a study about 10 years ago or so: only 1/3 of Catholics in the U.S. believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I suggest that these two figures are related.

-- John

Dan, based upon what you and others have posted, I think a big part of the solution for the ECs is the BCC example in Peoria . . . and the UGCC example in Toronto . . . I just wish that they were more frequently copied.

Elizbath, I am sorry to read that your parish might close due to lack of members and money. If I may ask, why is that particular parish diminishing? Is it changing demographics? The reason I ask is that my parish is growing smaller too, mainly because the young people move away in search of economic opportunity.

-- John

I don't know if this is digging deeper, but I think that our only hope to revitalize our churches is the revitalization of our society into one that once again puts their focus on wholesome values.

Ofcourse, that will only happen when Hollywood decides to follow that course, and that will only happen when either

1. hell freezes over ( )

or

2. a great suffering of the masses occurs in some way that will take their focus off of money and materialism and put it back into the things that are really important: God, commitments, family, loyalty, honesty, honour, etc....

When one cares more to be known as an 'honourable' man again, rather than a 'successful' man, we will be at that place again where church and religion will really matter to people. It all goes hand in hand...

For now, materialism and hedonism of all kinds including gluttony, sexuality, spending, etc. reign supreme and are, whether we are aware of it or not-- worshipped. God holds a nominal, if any role, in this particular reality which is life in the USA and other countries around the world.

Alice

While I do not disagree at all with some of the points made by Alice and others, I cannot help wondering whether we ought to be blaming society for our decline (if that is what the numbers actually show). ("Beams" and "motes" come to mind.) After all, our Faith spread initially beyond its Palestinian birthplace throughout a world drenched in blood and hedonism. What did the early Christians have that we do not? What led them to face "dungeon, fire and sword" for a Faith that is so easily jettisoned by some today?

Alice, I think we are going "back to the future." I think the Church's future is looking more and more like the early Church. There will be a core who practice the Gospel seriously, and there will be a wider society that does not, and we will be asked by the Lord to be the salt of the earth and light of the world (with His Life and Light). And there might be a bit of persecution too . . .

-- John

ALICE:

When more fathers take the time to tell their sons what mine said to me (may he rest in peace), then things might take a turn for the better.

"A man is a success in life if he can come to the end of the road, face Christ, and say, 'I have never compromised Your teaching.'"

also

"A man keeps his word no matter what; he keeps his word even if it costs him a loss. A man's word is worth more than anything."

While I miss him tremendously, I can only hope that when I see him again I can say I have tried hard to live up to what you taught me about being a man.

In Christ,

BOB

Dear Bob,

Those are beautiful quotes, and from what I see, you have lived up to those words.

Thank God that there are still honourable men around, but I see their numbers dwindling fast...

May the memory of your beloved father be eternal.

Respectfully
In Christ,
Alice

Dear John,

Pope Bendedict has said something to the same effect--that Christians will make up 'pockets' of worshipping communities within society, just like in the pagan world.

One day I was thinking about those pagan times and the correlation of today to then, vis a vis Christians, and a curious thing came to my mind...

EVEN then, in those days of debauchery and hedonism, the pagans gave time and attention to their 'gods' (whether or not those gods were demons)..infact, every society on earth has given time and attention to some deity...it has always been part and parcel to man to worship something which he considered greater than himself.

On the other hand, today, man, in general society, seems to worship no god but himself. Hmmmm.....

Regards,
Alice, being philosophical

[quote=Alice
Dear John,

Pope Bendedict has said something to the same effect--that Christians will make up 'pockets' of worshipping communities within society, just like in the pagan world.

One day I was thinking about those pagan times and the correlation of today to then, vis a vis Christians, and a curious thing came to my mind...

EVEN then, in those days of debauchery and hedonism, the pagans gave time and attention to their 'gods' (whether or not those gods were demons)..infact, every society on earth has given time and attention to some deity...it has always been part and parcel to man to worship something which he considered greater than himself.

On the other hand, today, man, in general society, seems to worship no god but himself. Hmmmm.....

Regards,
Alice, being philosophical [/quote]

There were atheists in those days. The aristocracy was generally atheists or at least what they worshipped was their own power. The love of wealth is corrupting. I've wondered for years how to reach the upwardly mobile. I've rarely been successful in that. Perhaps those who contend that we won't have a revival until we have a nationwide recession are correct. I do not know. In any event I'm feeling more and more like Solomon in his old age or whoever the writer of Ecclesiastes. "There is nothing new under the sun." Perhaps there is no new thing to win the world for Christ. Just remain faithful and see what God does.

CDL

Dear CDL,

Yes, I agree with you...in a previous post, I wrote:


Let's face it, when all is well in life, it is that much harder to focus on God because one may not feel that he needs Him for anything. Many people in our country are blessed. They have never known hunger, wartime, occupation, unemployment, desperation, etc...thus, God takes back stage for many of them..

I am always amazed at the holy countenance and personalities of those survivors of the Holocaust. Though they are not Christians, they have seen hell on earth, and rather than be bitter, they are wonderful and good hearted people. Likewise, my son had met survivors of Hiroshima, who he said were some of the loveliest people he had ever met in countenance--no bitterness, no anomosity, just pure love and kindness. Again, these people are not Christians, but they have suffered, and suffering can bring out a divine connection to the Creator and all that is good, like nothing else can.

I have met wealthy men who suffered hardships and poverty, but through God's blessing and hard work made much money. They are often secret philanthropists and compassionate and honourable men who will help others. I have also met their sons, who never having suffered anything, are usually quite the opposite in character...

Alice