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The initial exchange is from another RDL thread.

Originally Posted by Jessup B.C. Deacon
One thing that is more objectionable is the Uniontown Basilian translation of "Blazhen Muzh", or "Blessed is the Man". They have this translated as "Blessed is the One". The big problem with this is that the particular psalm is considered to be Messianic, and refers personally to Jesus Christ.

Dn. Robert

Originally Posted by PrJ
So Deacon -- why can "Blessed is the One" not still apply to Jesus? I don't see, logically, why the pronoun "One" cannot apply to Jesus and be understood messianically.

A different deacon, but if I may take a crack at it. I think this is a very important illustration.

Logically, One can apply to Jesus; He is certainly One. And the verb in the singular means just some one, not many. Still, it is very broad and inclusive as intended: One ~ anyone male or female. Being broad and inclusive, however, why would it then be "understood messianically" which is very narrow and specific?

So there is nothing wrong with the logic in applying to Jesus, but I don't see how it also points us to a messianic interpretation; it could be anything; it takes us nowhere in that regard (without prior knowledge based on a different meaning).

Also, one has to translate in context. One can't just go to a dictionary and pick out some meaning of a word and plop it into a sentence. I propose that the Uniontown Basilian translators having it as One, have done just that: True, I presume, to their intended purpose in pursuit of gender-neutrality, they have substituted for the word(s) for man=a male an appropriately castrated version. This is the intent, a reading into the text (see below) what is the desired rather than actual meaning, and this done not simply by interpretation (bad enough) but by altering the text, �cooking the books� so to speak.

Few if any words have a single "pure" meaning. The words in the original and traditional languages rendered One above are Heb: ha'ish, Gk: an&#275;r, Sl: mu�. The overwhelming usage of the word in each of the languages is man=a male. If anything, the traditional English rendering, Blessed is the man -- allowing that man in that usage is more inclusive than are the cited words in the source languages -- may convey more inclusivity than intended. That is, if English had retained man = wermen (male) & wifmen (female), a proper exegesis could well indicate Blessed is the werman as the correct, intended meaning. Here, as I have said before, the translator can't slap the hand of God who writing one thing has it "corrected" and translated into another. And if the wording had been <ha'ishah, gun&#275;, �ena>, then I would have it Blessed is the woman, and then guys, if you have a problem, grow up, accept it, even try pondering the mystery.


Originally Posted by PrJ
There is a hermeneutical question here when it comes to messianic psalms. As the Pope has pointed out in his recent book on Jesus, often these Old Testament passages have multiple meanings and interpretations exist on several layers. Thus the translator is forced to decide which interpretation to stress without doing undue justice to the other interpretations/layers.

A reliable hermeneutic is properly based on a sound exegesis (leading out) of the text, rather than an eisegesis (leading into) where one reads into the text what one wants it to say. For translating, the NRSV preface gives good advice (which it has unfortunately not followed) and quotes the maxim: �As literal as possible, as free as necessary.� Presumably one should honestly strive for the literal. My favorite one-liner for a solid hermeneutic is from Hugh of St. Victor, �De Scripturis et Scriptoribus Sacris,� PL 175, c13, �litteram legimus sed non secundum litteram,� we read the letter, but not according to the letter.

But one must have �the letter� to read.

Originally Posted by PrJ
In the case you mentioned the translation preserves the Messianic emphasis (Blessed is the One) while also allowing for the moral interpretation that stresses that each follower of Christ should not stand with the wicked, etc.

A Messianic meaning let alone a "Messianic emphasis" from the translation One, is conjuring, OR, predicated on what is really in the text but intentionally suppressed by using One. The sister�s translation doesn�t give us more of the context, i.e. the next verse, but the �problem� continues, the next verse being:

RSV Psalm 1:2 but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.

We don�t know how the sister�s translation using One would treat this, but standard gender-neutralizing translations use the device of switching to a plural form, thus:

NRSV Psalm 1:1 Happy are those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or take the path that sinners tread, or sit in the seat of scoffers; 2 but their delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law they meditate day and night.

In the NAB even the he for God, retained by the NRSV, is neutralized:

NAB Psalm 1:1 Happy those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked, Nor go the way of sinners, nor sit in company with scoffers. 2 Rather, the law of the LORD is their joy; God's law they study day and night.

Of course, now with the they language in place, how could one reach a messianic interpretation? If a messianic meaning is to be understood, One or they language is not going to do it.

Read the NRSV and NAB above; look at what they've done to the word of God,

Quote
NKJ Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.


and weep.



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Well spoken, Deacon Anthony.

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Originally Posted by ajk
We don�t know how the sister�s translation using One would treat this, but standard gender-neutralizing translations use the device of switching to a plural form

This is precisely what has been done in the Uniontown Basilian translation. This is from the text of The Office of Vespers-1987 edition-from the First Kathisma:

Blessed is the one-Alleluia-
who has not walked in the counsel of the wicked.
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
For the Lord knows the way of the just,
but the way of the wicked shall be lost.
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
Serve the Lord with fear,
exalt in Him with trembling,
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
Blessed are those who trust in Him!
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
Arise, O Lord, save me, my God!
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
Salvation is of the Lord!
Upon your people your blessing!
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
Glory be to the Father...............




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This is precisely what has been done in the Uniontown Basilian translation. This is from the text of The Office of Vespers-1987 edition-from the First Kathisma: 'Blessed are those who trust in Him!'

Sorry not in this case they didn't. Psalm 2:12 in the RSV:CE reads: "Blessed are all who take refuge in him."

It should also be noted that while the Byzantine Church has considered Psalm 1 Messianic others do not. Some taught that only Psalms 2 and 109(110) were Messianic, and again the RSV:CE seems to support this in its notes.



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John
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Deacon Anthony provides a cogent explanation and argument. The Lord�s words do not be corrected. And we see where changing �man� to �one� causes problems �downstream� because the fix is to make the term �man� in to a plural, which simply causes additional problems. It is less evident when there are selections from the psalms (see the NRSV for 1:1 posted above) and most evident when psalms are prayed in full. In the case of Psalm 1 it is the individual man who is blessed when he does not walk in the counsel of the ungodly, not man in the collective sense. It is not a matter of one man being blessed because someone else in his group (or most of the group) is not walking with the ungodly. �For the Lord guards the way of the just� (v. 6) promises that the Lord is with this specific individual when he walks with the Lord. Changing �man� to �one� in the first verse obliterates this meaning because it forces the rest of the psalm to apply to the collective rather than the individual. How sad to think that anyone praying this psalm could miss knowing that! It is further interesting that in the psalm each and every man is called to be righteous and that each individual man will be blessed when he keeps away from the wicked, sinners, and scorners. Note that those who are ungodly are in the plural and yet the Lord protects each individual who does not counsel with them. Such an idea might not (I freely admit) not have been in the mind of the psalmist but the psalm is open to the possibility of the blessing from the Lord being so great he will protect the righteous man (individual) from all who are in any way ungodly. When it is all pluralized the promise of protection passes to the collective and the righteous man (individual) is lost. I suppose someone could argue that one could teach what it actually means, but why go there when a literally faithful translation already does that so clearly.

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Quote
This is precisely what has been done in the Uniontown Basilian translation. This is from the text of The Office of Vespers-1987 edition-from the First Kathisma: 'Blessed are those who trust in Him!'

Sorry not in this case they didn't. Psalm 2:12 in the RSV:CE reads: "Blessed are all who take refuge in him."

It should also be noted that while the Byzantine Church has considered Psalm 1 Messianic others do not. Some taught that only Psalms 2 and 109(110) were Messianic, and again the RSV:CE seems to support this in its notes.

Oops. You got me on that one-you are right about Psalm 2-I even checked the Douay-Rheims translation. It was late, and I was guilty of being lazy, and assumed that's what was done without checking. However, the fact that the Byzantine Church considers Psalm 1 to be Messianic speaks volumes regarding what was done by the translator in this case. "Blessed is the Man" is very defendable, given that Our Lord Jesus Christ took on a male human nature.

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
It should also be noted that while the Byzantine Church has considered Psalm 1 Messianic others do not.

Deacon Lance makes a valid point, something we should keep in mind. My initial post addresses only a more limited topic based on the two questions, 'Does "Blazhen Muzh" mean "Blessed is the One"?', and 'why the pronoun "One" cannot apply to Jesus and be understood messianically'? That is, in that post a presumed messianic character is considered in relation to the translation One even though, as pointed out here, the Psalm's messianic character is itself a question.

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Muzh in Slavic languages has always connotated man; I can't think of any reason to change the translation other than to quite specifically gender neutralize. I think the messainic content may be there, but the Psalm clearly has a more immediate and proximate purpose with regard to lived virture.

If you look at the four generally recognized liturgical "themes" (according to Fr. Schmemann as well as earlier writers) Creation, Fall, Redemption and Parousia, Blazhen Muzh falls within the Creation theme and would thus be more of a reminder of what the blameless life entails, what it means to live in a paradisical relationship with God rather than directly pointing towards the Savior.

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Yikes! This discussion scares me because it relies upon linguistic correlations, and it is clear that that some of the posters have less than no clue about the linguistic reality. It has nothing to do with Slavonic, or with Greek, or even with Hebrew. It has to do with ENGLISH.

First: any time that the verb "be" is used in English, it posits an equation. X = Y. Blessed Is (=) the Man.

Second: when the equation is X = Y, and the "Y" element contains a subordinate clause (subject and verb combination), there needs to be a connector: Blessed is the man (blessed = man) WHO (and then a subject-verb sentence) to describe "man". the content of the 'clause' reflects back upon the noun that it describes, in this case "man".

In the case of "Blessed is the Man" versus "Blessed is the One", the "Y" element of the phrase can be omitted, and the subject/verb combination of the clause can be inserted WITHOUT reference to the connector "who", "one", "man", etc. The rendering is just:

"Blessed is (he/him/them/those) who walks in the way of the godly..."

or, in better English style (metathisizing X and Y):

"Whoever walks in the way of the godly is blessed."

Good English grammar, good English style.

This is not the linguistic equivalent of rocket science. Any second year linguistics student should be able to accomplish this rendering over a lunch break. The problem lies in the fact that LINGUISTICS folks aren't invited to participate in the renderings. Only "liturgists" or "theologians" are deemed competent to render 'sacred texts'. This is just hubris. As a diploma'd linguist and diploma'd theologian, I see the problem and the solution. But my ilk aren't privy to the discussions about the renderings, nor are the "ordinary" people in the pews. Scary.

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Sadly, accreditation boards, style manuals, and many liturgists are stirring the prescriptive pot and trying to create gender uniformity, or worse preserve the feminine forms while banishing the masculine forms as somehow inferior.

Yes, we need more linguists who possess common sense.

In the verse, �Blessed is the Man," Man refers to Christ.

Using the old king's English -- "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

Elizabeth-Maria
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Originally Posted by Dr John
Any second year linguistics student should be able to accomplish this rendering over a lunch break.

I'm not clear on the form of the indicated rendering: what rendering of what text? The intended focus is Psalm 1, especially the opening verse and its immediate context.

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Just thought of the ramifications beyond Orthodoxy, putting the shoe on the other foot. So when the Druids celebrate the Vernal (spring) Equinox on the Gregorian (new style) Leap Year day of March 20, 2008 at 5:57 Catholic (universal) Time, that is 12:57 Eastern Standard Time (EST) they should not say �blessed be SHE�?

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I can agree with Dr. John that the text "Whoever walks in the way of the godly is blessed" which he offers is �Good English grammar, good English style.� The problem is that it is not a literally accurate translation but a paraphrase. It gives us not an exacting translation of the original text but what the translator thinks it means. This is an example of the �dynamic translation� (translating the thought rather then the words). Translations need to be literally accurate, and carry with them all the possible nuances of the original texts.

In this example we can look at the RSV and the NKJV, which are literal translations:

Quote
KJV, Psalm 1:1a
�Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly�.�
Quote
RSV, Psalm 1:1a
�Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked�.�
At face value, saying that 'a man who does not walk in the council of the ungodly' is not the same thing as saying that 'a man who walks in the way of the godly is blessed'. It is changing a negative (does not walk) into a positive (walks). That is not a literal translation.

Further, the pronoun used in Hebrew �'ish� in this context refers to a man that is also male. So an accurate translation must include this reference to a man who is also male.

I can understand the good intentions of those who seek to re-work the Scriptures (and liturgical texts) because they feel that they need to be gender neutralized so as not to be offensive. But that idea is totally incorrect. Translations of Scripture and liturgical texts need to be literally accurate (while also being elegant). Otherwise it is not a translation but a paraphrase. When you paraphrase you loose exact meaning. It would be the job of the homilist or teacher to take the texts and explain them.

In the other thread: "What's Wrong with Gender-Neutral Bible Translations?" we can see how the experts treat this, and we can remember the Vatican directives given in "Liturgiam Authenticam" [vatican.va] and elsewhere are similar:
Quote
4. The disappearance of the righteous man from wisdom literature.

Psalm 1 begins with a description of a righteous man: "Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners..but his delight is in the law of the Lord" (RSV). Here the Hebrew word for "man" is 'ish, which ordinarily means a "man" in distinction from woman (except in some rare idiomatic constructions). The "default" sense of the word, the sense readers would attach to this word unless the context required another sense, is "man." Psalm 1 holds up a solitary righteous man who stands against plural "sinners" as an example for all Israelites to emulate (similarly, Proverbs 31 holds up a godly woman as an example to emulate).

But this righteous man is gone from the NRSV: "Happy are those who do not follow the advice of the wicked...but their delight is in the law of the LORD." The NIVI similarly says "Blessed are those...their delight...," and the ncv, CEV, and NLT do the same.

Now there is no ambiguity in the original Hebrew text over the fact that the righteous "man" is singular and "the wicked," "sinners," and "scoffers" are all in plural. Prior to the advent of the "gender-neutral" NRSV in 1989, all English translations rendered Psalm 1 this way -- the blessed "man" was singular, and "sinners" and "scoffers" were plural. Of course, some scholars may question whether the psalmist intended this singular-plural contrast to be something that readers noticed, something that is important to interpreting the Psalm, so that we notice the courage of this solitary man in contrast to many "sinners." People may differ over whether this is intended, but the point remains: English readers should be able to have an English translation that lets them know that the singular-plural contrast is there, so that they may consider for themselves whether such a contrast is important for interpretation. With a gender-neutral translation, they do not even have that option.

The NIVI "Preface" explains what led to this translation of Hebrew singular words with English plural words. It was not that scholars suddenly discovered in 1992 that the singular Hebrew wordha'ish/ ("the man") was really plural (which would have required ha'anashim). Rather, the translators tell us that "In order to avoid gender-specific language in statements of a general kind, it was agreed that the plural might be substituted for the singular and the second person for the third person" (p. vii). Evangelical Christians should ponder that sentence well: it says they "substituted" plurals for singulars, and second person statements for third person. It does not say the original Hebrew or Greek words were plural, or were in the second person. It says they changed ("substituted") singulars to plurals and third person to second person.

Psalm 1 is a good example of this process: the maleness of the passage was "muted" by changing to plurals: "Blessed are those...their delight is in the law of the Lord." Suddenly the "patriarchal" language is gone. It hasn't disappeared from the Hebrew text (which still talks about a single "man," and uses masculine singular pronouns to speak of "his" delight in the law of the Lord, on which say "he" meditates day and night.) But the offensive "patriarchalism" that was in the Hebrew text has disappeared from the English translation.

I strongly disagree with this procedure. The evangelical doctrine of Scripture is that every word of the original is exactly what God wanted it to be, because "all Scripture is God-breathed" (2 Tim. 3:16). If God caused Psalm 1 to be written with singular nouns and pronouns, then we should reflect the sense of those words in English translation. We must not "substitute" other words with different senses.

At this point someone may object, "But doesn't Psalm 1 also apply to women? Then shouldn't we translate it as "they" so that women don't miss the point?" Of course it applies to women as well, just as the parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) applies to daughters as well as sons. But we must not translate Luke 15 to speak of a prodigal "child," or Psalm 1:1 to speak of the blessed "person," for that is not what the words mean in those verses. The definite expression ha'ish ("the man") uses a specifically male-oriented word to mean, "the man."
The translation offered by Dr. John does not have the issue of pluralizing the pronoun, but it does change the pronoun from �man� to �whoever�. That is not an accurate rendering of the original text.

Another issue is that raised by Elizabeth Maria. The Church Fathers have allowed a messianic reference to the �man� in Psalm 1 as Christ (but the Church does not insist upon it). That reference is lost in the translation that does not use �man� in the translation.

Let me offer another example here. If a mother of teenagers (two boys and two girls) tells them a story that ends with �and look at the trouble he made for himself when he did something wrong� and then looked at her children and said �so don�t do what he did� no one would think that her command only applied to the teen age boys present. The teen age girls would also understand that the command applied to them, too. The story is representative, and the mother�s use of an example of a teen age boy does not take away the application to the teen age girls, too. No one is (or should be) offended that she used an example involving a teen age boy. Now another mother might tell the story differently, and use the example of a teen age girl. But that is not what this mother did. And her words deserve to be translated accurately. Scripture, too, must be translated accurately. If the Greek or Hebrew text uses the equivalent of �man� (in its inclusive sense of both men or women or specifically to refer to a man who is male) that needs to be captured in translation.

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Originally Posted by Administrator
Translations need to be literally accurate, and carry with them all the possible nuances of the original texts...
Especially in this case since the Psalms are poetry. Even apart from translating, who would want to change "To be or not to be, that is the question" to "Should I kill myself or not?" etc.?

Originally Posted by Administrator
Further, the pronoun used in Hebrew �'ish� in this context refers to a man that is also male. So an accurate translation must include this reference to a man who is also male.
'ish is a noun, so there is already an alteration and weakening in the imagery if even the masculine pronoun is used instead, let alone the more general "whoever." The Hebrew has the definite article too (though it can function differently in various languages), i.e. ha'ish, allowing for not just a man but specifically the man.

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Originally Posted by ajk
Especially in this case since the Psalms are poetry. Even apart from translating, who would want to change "To be or not to be, that is the question" to "Should I kill myself or not?" etc.?
Galatians 5:9 (KJV) � �A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.�

Paraphrase of Galatians 5:9 � �A little dab will do ya.�

I suppose a good homilist or teacher could use the paraphrase to make the point. But the original needs to be translated accurately. It is possible to be literally faithful and yet produce elegant translations that keep the poetry of the original. This is especially important with the psalms.

Originally Posted by ajk
'ish is a noun, so there is already an alteration and weakening in the imagery if even the masculine pronoun is used instead, let alone the more general "whoever." The Hebrew has the definite article too (though it can function differently in various languages), i.e. ha'ish, allowing for not just a man but specifically the man.
Thank you for the correction and clarification. I should have been clearer in stating that the change was from a noun to a pronoun.

See how important accuracy is? biggrin

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