www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Eastern Catholics make coverage on new deadly sin list

I suppose that there is no doubt that certain sins are "unto death" (which is the meaning of "mortal") and others are not. The real questions include such points as:

a) can the Church really "create" mortal sins? Does anyone remember exactly how much meat one had to eat on Friday in order to commit a mortal sin?

b) to what decree is the judgment of whether someone has in fact committed a mortal sin discernible to others, or even to oneself?

and so forth.

Fr. Serge

Father Serge,

The question "b" is a doozer.

Much of what came out does not seem very "new".

Terry

Interestingly enough, yesterday at the UGCC church I frequent, we had a guest priest, who is a very firey speaker, AND he pointed out most clearly that missing church on Sunday without valid reason is a mortal sin.

Huh? What's this "change" and "no longer"?

Dunno... we speak in term of voluntary and involuntary sins often. It's in many of my daily prayers and is central to discussions with my spiritual father. It's certainly central to Greek Catholic Hieromonk Maximos' understanding of our Eastern Christian identity.

http://hrmonline.org/involuntarysins
http://hrm.ductape.net/blog/index.php?/archives/56-Spe-Salvi,-Involuntary-Sin-and-Purgatory.html

Can I call the Western classification of sins a Latinization? Probably not convincingly to many, but I can say that in my talking to parishioners, to my wife, and to my family I use the
terminology of voluntary and involuntary sins and can reference the Fathers readily when I need guidance as they share that lexicon.

"In profound humility I weep for all my sins, voluntary and involuntary, conscious and unconscious, covert and overt, great and little, committed by word and deed, in thought and intention, day and night, at every hour and minute of my life."

To offer a question often heard in the late nineteen-sixties:

"What happens now to all those Catholics who went to Hell for eating meat on Friday?"

Fr. Serge

Not sure, Fr. Grandfathered in?

They're still obliged to do something on Fridays and canon 1251 is still there though how many in the Western church are picking an alternate abstinence to fulfill the "obligation."

Reading Schmemann's Lent book on the subject actually. During lent at least the apostolic canons say that priests should be deposed and if a layperson excommunicated.

And when, pray, did you last read of a priest being deposed, or a layman excommunicated, by the Eastern Orthodox Church for the crime of eating meat on Friday?

[Let's leave the Old Ritualists out of this particular discussion - they would probably follow the canons.]

Fr. Serge

My post was entirely tongue-in-cheek.

Actually there was an interesting discussion going on a few weeks ago over at the Holy Whapping blog about whether or not, even under the 1983 Code of Canon Law, Roman Catholics are still required to abstain from meat on Fridays throughout the year, or even if nothing at all is required. Apparently the wording causes some confusion...

Alexis

Interesting discussion. I am recalled of the old Baltimore Catechism (of blessed memory! both green and blue books) which asked:

Q. What three things are necessary to make a sin mortal? Answer: Serious matter, sufficient reflection, and full consent of the will. (Lord, it's been 50 years and I can still sing-song the questions and answers!!)

I think that we find a clear distinction between the Eastern and Western approaches to "sin". The catechism answer gives good theology, but if you look deeply, it indeed devolves the responsiblity to the person even though that was not emphasized. One has to know something is "bad", think about it, and then do it anyway.

In the East, it is even less black and white. One is supposed to get spiritual advice from one's spiritual father or mother and use that advice to guide one's activities, it's not so much looking things up in the "Catalogue of Mortal Sins".

The catechism was meant to provide 'express-lane' information. Do "A", and if it's serious enough, you're dead meat. But this is really for the 'adolescent' Christian who needs black/white guidance.

Example: in Houston where I was assailed by everything barbecue and Tex-Mex with cheese and sour cream (thankfully I like peanut butter!), I fled to a Vietnamese restaurant and ordered Pho (=noodle soup) with shrimp. While eating, I discovered that the cook had included a few slivers of pork in the broth for flavor. As usual, I thought: "Oh crap." But then, I turned it around and realized that the cook had done this to enhance the flavor of the soup. And so, as I oftentimes do, I had a short prayer to give thanks for the meal and to "bless the hands of the cook who prepared my meal". I realized that the 'meat' thing was less than miniscule, I needed to be grateful for the skills of the cook. And I thanked the lady - sincerely - for the wonderful Pho that she had prepared for me. So much in life is like this.

Give thanks to God for the wonderful things that are given to you, from the Hands of the Lord or from the hands of our fellow human beings. (From dogs, too.)

I have come to realize that "there is more evil in this world as a result of thoughtlessness than as a result of malice". Most people don't intend to do 'evil', there isn't "sufficient reflection and full consent of the will" - to quote the catechism. They just make really stupid choices. Is that "sin"? I'm not sure, but for the rest of us reflective people, we need to look at all the possible good that can come of a situation and rejoice in that good-ness that ultimately comes from God despite some overtly bad components.

The closer I come to my death, the more I realize that it's the love for God and for one's neighbor that is important. "Sweating the small stuff" is the luxury of the young.

(Sorry to have gone on so long - I guess it's the Lenten reflection thing.)

Blessings to everyone!

Dr John, Motormouth

Indeed!

I don't need any new deadly sins. It's taken me a lifetime to get good at the old ones. Pass the chocolate, please, and make it dark.