www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Vocation Crisis

Ed,

I think you are treating the exception as the rule. Are there clergy who fall into sin? Of course. It does not matter whether they are single or married. I know the majority of clergy in the Ruthenian Church (most to speak to and many as friends). The vast numbers of clergy are honest, hardworking and fall less often then the rest of us. That must always be kept in mind.

There are a number of issues that come with the restoration of a married clergy. One is the need for the Church to pay a just wage. That is something that we don�t really do at present. And, from my perspective, a just wage should be to place a man on an equal footing with his �peers� (i.e., other professionals in the community). That is a difficult issue given that Ruthenian parishes are usually small. One might (logically and reasonably) state that people need to tithe 10%. But given that in many of our parishes the majority of parishioners are older and on fixed incomes (and have never been trained to tithe at that level) it is not going to happen. [Plant seeds, but be realistic.]

How do we resolve the vocations crisis? By making the quality of worship in our parishes outstanding in every way. Where the worship of Lord is the center of the Liturgy (and, indeed, is the only reason for the gathering) He is present in a powerful way. When that Liturgy is powerful people are attracted and they are formed in His likeness. When this happens people who are called to serve can hear that calling and have the support to act upon it.

I am not saying that the points you are making are incorrect. Just that they come across as cause rather then symptom.

One more point. On the married clergy issue I have already suggested to at least one bishop that they might consider ordaining those who once went to the seminary but left to get married and serve the Lord in marriage. There are many such men, and I have no idea if they are called, or consider themselves called to the priesthood. [One that I know feels called to be a priest but is not interested in the deaconate because he does not feel called to serve in that ordained role.] I do know that must be many fine examples of such men who have had wonderful, long-lasting marriages, raised their children, successful in their careers, who could (in the latter part of their career or in retirement) serve the Church as married priests. Yes, the Church needs pastors. But a retired man who does not need a full-time salary and all the costs that go with it could contribute greatly. A few in any city could simply serve to do �vacation coverage� for those priests who need to get away but have no one available to cover for them.

Import priests from Europe? Sure, but on a case-by-case basis. Some will turn out to be disasters, others will be fantastic. That is the same with all people in all professions.

What can laymen do? Support your priest. Pray for him. Pray for the Church and for vocations. The more laymen dedicate themselves to the Lord the more they find themselves supporting the Church.

John

I am new here, it is nice to meet everyone. Much of this subject matter is way over my head, but I will pray for our priests and for vocations as a special intention at evening prayers tonight.

Of interesting note is a nearby parish. A married priest (brought in through the pastoral provision) helped design some of the artwork of the parish (a huge parish seating 3k or more) of which a host of angels was drawn. All the angels had their own look... one was painted to look like his wife... who later left him... and the angel remains unchanged to this day. One more vote for iconography?

Welcome, Rusyn Christian !

-- John

You could almost be describing me here, save that I never made it to the seminary :--the *only* reason being that I was to marry.

Yes, I think I was called for it. I belong in a catholic university as a teaching priest. But I was sent someone to marry . . . Now I've been married 17 years, and my oldest children are nearing college.

It's pretty clear to me that I'm not meant for the parish. It's also clear to me that there are other places, particularly high schools and colleges, but also in other ministries, where we *do* need priests. Not meaning to bait Fr. Serge (ok, not very much :)), the Jesuit priests in my high school and college were major influences--and now there are very few of them. I had one or two in the classroom every year; now that high school has four in the classroom, all part time.

Also, married priests in these roles generally wouldn't be a support issue for their diocese or eparchy--they would be paid by the universities, high schools, etc.

hawkk

Firstly, to what church are you referring to, Latin, Ukrainian, or Ruthenian? Do you have any evidence to prove your assertion that Church growth is really the cause of the vocations crisis? I don't believe that anyone who honestly investigates the situation of the Catholic Cuhurch in the U.S. can fail to see that there are certainly much less clergy today than there were 40 years ago. Also, I highly doubt that either the Latin or Byzantine Churches in the U.S., have had more new parishes created than closed in the last 40 years.

This seems a good time to request money be put where mouth is.

Neven Pesa, a graduate of Franciscan University of Steubenville and seminarian hopeful, is trying to reduce his debt so that he can go to Saint Basil Seminary in Methuen, MA. Please consider lending him a financial hand and go to his website:

http://www.helpmebecomeapriest.com/

Let's go to the specifics for the Eastern Catholic Churches in the U.S. based on the 2007 Annuario Pontificio (End of 2006 data):

(1) The 2 eparchies of the Maronites have about 75,000 faithful in 60 parishes, served by 5 Bishops, 78 secular/diocesan priests, 21 religious priests, 28 male religious, 7 female religious, and 27 deacons. They have 4 seminarians.

(2) The 2 eparchies of the Chaldeans have about 125,200 faithful in 15 parishes, served by 2 Bishops, 22 secular/diocesan priests, 3 religious priests, 13 male religious, 12 female religious, and 65 deacons. Only 1 seminarian.

(3) The only eparchy of the Syrians has about 13,270 faithful in 8 parishes, served by 1 Bishop, 9 secular/diocesan priests, no religious priests nor male or female religious, and 2 deacons. They have 2 seminarians.

(4) The sole eparchy of the Syro-Malabars has about 100,000 faithful in 8 parishes, served by 1 Bishop, 26 secular/diocesan priests, 10 religious priests, 10 male religious, 12 female religious, and no deacons. They have no seminarians!

(5) The single eparchy of the Melkites have about 25,000 faithful in 35 parishes, served by 2 Bishops, 49 secular/diocesan priests, 15 religious priests, 16 male religious, 3 female religious, and 44 deacons. They have only 1 seminarian.

(6) The archeparchy and 3 eparchies of the Ukrainians have about 103,000 faithful in 200 parishes, served by 8 Bishops, 209 secular/diocesan priests, 34 religious priests, 49 male religious, 165 female religious, and 35 deacons. The UGCC in the U.S. has 47 seminarians!

(7) The single eparchy of the Romanians has about 5,000 faithful in 14 parishes, served by 2 Bishops, 21 secular/diocesan priests, 3 religious priests, 7 male religious, no fmale religious, and 3 deacons. They have 2 seminarians.

(8) The archeparchy and 3 eparchies of the Ruthenians have about 97,000 faithful in 222 parishes, served by 5 Bishops, 205 secular/diocesan priests, 26 religious priests, 34 male religious, 120 female religious, and 50 deacons. They have 3 seminarians.

Correlating the total number of parishes and the number of total priests (we don't know the number of retired priests) should suggest the number of seminarians needed to fill the forthcoming retirement of aging priests. That's when a "vocations crisis" come in.

Which of the ECC has/have a vocations crisis?

Amado

Amado -

Do you have the statistics for the Armenian Catholics?

I purposely did not include the Armenians because theirs is combined for the U.S. and Canada and it goes this way:

Armenian Catholics in the U.S. and Canada number about 36,000 in 9 parishes, served by 1 Bishop, 8 secular/diocesan priests, 5 religious priests, 5 male religious, 12 female religious, but no deacons. They have only 1 seminarian.

The Eparchy of Our Lady of Nareg was established in 2005 for Armenian Catholics in the United States and Canada. Its faithful are under the spiritual care of Bishop Manuel Batakian, 167 North 6th Street, Brooklyn, New York 11211.

Amado

What will happen to the groups with less than four or even no seminarians? That basically seems like an emergency situation to me.

I can't believe the cost of his B.A.:

Some may think it was irresponsible to amass such a huge debt.

Believe it, private colleges and university tuition rates are nothing to scoff at. My estimated student debt when I graduate will be around $23,000 dollars. Granted that is less than Mr. Pesa's but still it's a lot. Seminaries today often don't have a college with a BA attached to them. This leaves many young men considering the priesthood (like myself) to get our BA at schools that will hopefully help us by giving us the best education possible for the sake of our future parishes. Oftentimes this comes with price, as is evident in Neva Pesa's case. You quoted him saying "In order for me to accomplish this goal, I need to first alleviate my student loan debt of $72,000, coming from attending an expensive Catholic university for the last 4 years. the dynamic Catholic orthodoxy of Franciscan University of Steubenville was wonderful but also very costly." With this quote in mind remember that a young man looking to the priesthood has a responsibility to the Church and God to get the best possible education. This often comes at a great price. Granted one should also keep in mind the cost of their education and their potential vocation. I'm an considering the priesthood but in my case I plan on remaining in the world for a few years to pay off my debt and am also receiving family assistance in that regard if I still feel that I have a vocation. In Neva Pesa's case we should pray for him and contribute what we can because in the end a vocation is priceless.

Looking at the total numbers of faithful vis-a-vis the number of clergy and seminarians makes me ask: are the numbers of the faithful reported here accurate, or are these just bloated?

The Chaldeans have 120,000+ faithful and only one seminarian? I find that to be rather unimaginable.

AP - You do?

They only have 15 parishes... but 65 deacons...

I think LA - the largest diocese in the US - ordained only 4 men to the priesthood last year...

It isn't that much of a stretch. Should Mar Bawai's petition be accepted, there will be more clergy being brought in still.