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Joined: Nov 2001
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I understand where my brother from Georgia is coming from with his understanding of validity of orders, apostolic succession, etc. It's a way of keeping the flock from going store-front ministry bonkers.

There is a type of 'yin-yang' that constantly forces us to evaluate our situations. It is absolutely clear that the first and second commandments of the Lord bind us to loving God and to loving our neighbor as we would care for ourselves. This must be the everlasting touchstone of our commitment to Christ.

Other elements, such as ecclesiastical structures and lines of authority, are valuable as long as they are subservient to the Lord's commandments. Thus, we may look at other communities as 'rebels' from the ancient 5 patriarchates, and wish that they could see the value in remaining in communion with the original Church. And, as more 'jurisdictions' come into being, we can only shake our heads and ask: "Why?"

Some are clearly self-aggrandizement - witness any number of the 'mega-churches' with millions in 'tithes'. Others are truly 'protest'-ant against what are seen as abuses of the Christian community in the mother churches.

If we truly pray and discipline ourselves to the Lord's commandments, it is easy to dismiss the former 'money-grubbers', from the truly spiritual protesters. And, it would appear, that we should both respect and in some ways honor those whose ecclesiology is different from our own because of their wish to adhere to Gospel principles.

Apropos Cardinal Newman who saw value in the practices of the Wesleyans in England, I think we also need to see the great value of their Methodist spiritual children in the U.S. Let's face it, their "Open Hearts, Open Doors, Open Minds" is probably the best Madison Avenue advertisement for Christianity that has been around in a long while. Have we Catholic or Orthodox Christians got anything even remotely like this to draw people?

Though this may make some folks uncomfortable, I make a parallel between "regular Baptism" and the "Baptism of Desire" (an RC theological principle) and the "Holy Orders" and what I surmise as a "Holy Orders of Desire". There are some who wish to serve as ministers of the Gospel, as clergy, but who are "outside the household of the faith" as the Romaniaks say. Thus, I see the 'ministrations' of the legitimate (non-flake, non-money-grubber) jurisdictions as having a type of grace for reaching out to the unchurched. And I, for one, am not about to say - as SultanOfSuede makes very clear, that God dispenses His Grace where He wills, despite our rules.

Spiritually, I could never live outside the Apostolic Tradition of the 5 ancient patriarchates. For me, it is a direct connection to Christ and to the original 12 Apostles. But for other folks who don't have the knowledge of church history that I have, it's not such a big deal. And joining a "Burning Bible Holiness Church of God in Christ of Cleveland, Tennessee" is for them perhaps a way of grace and salvation.

Would I have communion with them? No, because we have different understandings of what "communion" means. Would I pray with them? Yes. Would I work with them in a soup kitchen or homeless outreach or other ministration to those in need? In a heartbeat.

Apostolicity is important, and we need to educate folks as to what the connection with the ongoing and ancient Church means. But as Christians, we need to realize that differences will exist, and that we need to evangelize Christ to the world by demonstrating that "love of God, love of neighbor" is the immutable and universal touchstone of Christian faith. On this there can be no compromise - ever.

"God is Love. Whoever abides in love, abides in God; and God in them."

With blessings for Great Week and Pascha (for the West) and a Holy Lent (for the East)

Dr John

Joined: Jan 2006
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Hear hear to Dr. J's post!!

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