www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Is Eastern Orthodoxy a Part of the True Church?

A Catholic friend of mine told me that Catholics believe that the Orthodox are part of the "True Church."

Is he right when he says this?

Dave Armstrong said in his book Orthodoxy and Catholicism: A Comparison that Catholics "must believe that Orthodoxy is a part of the universal Church." He cites the Vat II and Papal encyclicals.

All this sounds heretical to me.

Sure they have Apostolic Succession, and sure they are Churches, but that doesn't make them any less schismatic from the visible Church of Christ.

Does it?

I have been led to believe that the Catholic Church is the True Church of Christ, and the EO, even though they have Apostolic Succession and valid sacraments, are in schism with the True Church.

I am I wrong on this? If I am, can y'all show me how from like the CCC or something authoritave?

I want to make sure that my understanding of the Church is following Catholic dogma. I am still learning about the Catholic Faith and I really am confused now.


Thanks in advance.

Are you Orthodox?

A Catholic friend of mine told me that Catholics believe that the Orthodox are part of the "True Church."

Is he right when he says this?

A Catholic friend of mine told me that Catholics believe that the Orthodox are part of the "True Church."

Is he right when he says this?

Dave Armstrong said in his book Orthodoxy and Catholicism: A Comparison that Catholics "must believe that Orthodoxy is a part of the universal Church." He cites the Vat II and Papal encyclicals.

All this sounds heretical to me.

Sure they have Apostolic Succession, and sure they are Churches, but that doesn't make them any less schismatic from the visible Church of Christ.

Does it?

I have been led to believe that the Catholic Church is the True Church of Christ, and the EO, even though they have Apostolic Succession and valid sacraments, are in schism with the True Church.

I am I wrong on this? If I am, can y'all show me how from like the CCC or something authoritave?

A Catholic friend of mine told me that Catholics believe that the Orthodox are part of the "True Church."

Is he right when he says this?

Dave Armstrong said in his book Orthodoxy and Catholicism: A Comparison that Catholics "must believe that Orthodoxy is a part of the universal Church." He cites the Vat II and Papal encyclicals.

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." [i]With the Orthodox Churches,[i] this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."

I didn't know this. Could you quote official documents that must be believed by Catholics that say exactly this? Do these documents have dogmatic weight?

Vatican II: Lumen Gentium
15. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ's disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth.

Vatican II: Decree on Ecumenism
3. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life-that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God. This people of God, though still in its members liable to sin, is ever growing in Christ during its pilgrimage on earth, and is guided by God's gentle wisdom, according to His hidden designs, until it shall happily arrive at the fullness of eternal glory in the heavenly Jerusalem.

Vatican II: Decree on Ecumenism
15. Everyone also knows with what great love the Christians of the East celebrate the sacred liturgy, especially the eucharistic celebration, source of the Church's life and pledge of future glory, in which the faithful, united with their bishop, have access to God the Father through the Son, the Word made flesh, Who suffered and has been glorified, and so, in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, they enter into communion with the most holy Trinity, being made "sharers of the divine nature".(35) Hence, through the celebration of the Holy Eucharist in each of these churches, the Church of God is built up and grows in stature(36) and through concelebration, their communion with one another is made manifest.

In this liturgical worship, the Christians of the East pay high tribute, in beautiful hymns of praise, to Mary ever Virgin, whom the ecumenical Council of Ephesus solemnly proclaimed to be the holy Mother of God, so that Christ might be acknowledged as being truly Son of God and Son of Man, according to the Scriptures. Many also are the saints whose praise they sing, among them the Fathers of the universal Church.

These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments and above all, by apostolic succession, the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are linked with us in closest intimacy. Therefore some worship in common (communicatio in sacris), given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not only possible but to be encouraged.