www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Is Eastern Orthodoxy a Part of the True Church?

Correct.

I second the motion. Let's hope and pray that one day the Latin church will rejoin Holy Orthodoxy and the two Chalices shall become one.

The Catholic Church does not, in her current practice, consider the Orthodox Church to be schismatic. My proof: look in the back of your missalette, where it gives the guidelines for receiving communion. No objection is made to Orthodox Christians receiving communion, although it says they should follow the rules of their hierarchs.

Ergo, not schismatic.

That doesn't mean it isn't complicated, but we shouldn't throw around the "schismatic" label.

Shall we talk about guarding the Chalice? I as an Orthodox Christian absolutely refuse to approach Catholic communion until full unity is restored. I know I'm welcome to receive at a Catholic church but Holy Orthodoxy says different.

One would think the Catholic church would take the same stance. How can communion be openly offered, when a church is not considered to be in full communion?

It seems the points of view are asymmetric.

KW,

As you can see, your query has, for better or worse, sparked some sensitivities - more so than we ordinarily encounter here. Without question, Catholicism and Orthodoxy (whether it be Eastern or Oriental) are separated and each of the respective Churches perceives itself as having the fullness of truth.

At the same time, each (generally - there are some who would dissent) considers the other(s) to possess a unique character (for lack of the ability of my tired brain to formulate a better term at the moment) that differentiates it from Protestantism. You have wandered amongst a body of folk here who, for the most part, would be classed as optimists. I think it's safe to say that the overriding desire among us is for there to be unity of all God's peoples and Churches and, most especially, our respective ecclesia, because we are very cognizant of what separates us but equally of what unites us - common bonds of spirituality, theological understanding, and praxis.

There are many sites on the web, both Catholic and Orthodox, at which one will find the prevailing viewpoints to be significantly more hard-nosed than here. That is not to say that we are synchristic or that any of us is less than passionate in his or her belief or faith. It has, however, always seemed to me that those most committed to this site have an implicit respect for one another's faith and beliefs, an abiding desire for unity to be achieved, and a trust that the Holy Spirit will eventually enlighten the minds and hearts of men - that such might happen.

So, while one can, will, and should find acknowledgement here of the matters which separate our Churches, and one will see the occasional debate over doctrinal or dogmatic issues, you are unlikely to encounter much "labeling" with terms such as schismatic, heterodox, etc. It's a self-defeating approach that does not leave open lines of communication, does not encourage dialogue or debate, does not lead to understanding; rather, it brings to mind the days of anathema-hurling and dogmatic pronouncements - not some few of which, generated from both sides, brought us to where we are today.

This is a place where we are less concerned with where we are in regard to one another than where we'd like to be - together, if the Holy Spirit will only show our respective hierarchs how to get there. We have watched members pass from one Church to the other and I'd be naive to say that it doesn't pain those whose Church was left behind, but you won't see recriminations or dire predictions that the new Catholic or new Orthodox is hell-bound. Prayerful wishes that he or she find their new spiritual home to give them peace are much more the norm.

We are a family here, we know each other - most often at least by our personal names; we pray for one another's needs and mourn our brethren's losses. In some respects, this is the most ecumenical environment you'll find on-line. So, if we appear to be most concerned with helping you to understand why we're not sure it's productive to focus on "schism" - but rather to acknowledge "separation", it's because the latter seems much more amenable to being bridged - and we pray for that to happen.

Many years,

Neil, who cannot claim to speak for all of his brothers and sisters, but believes that most here feel similarly

:::applause:::

Well said, brother !

When I was drawing closer to my own Chrismation from Catholicism into Orthodoxy, I was (as some here recall) a bit hardnosed about ecumenism. Now that I actually made the jump, it's not that big of an issue to me anymore. Each of the Churches claims that it is the "one True Church." Yet, each shares the one true Christ. In other words, the big issue for me now is living what I claim to profess. In Him, directly and in our charity with each other, the answer of reunion lies.

-- John

The points of view do seem asymetric. But there is variation of opinion on both sides of the divide. The mutual excommunications of 1054 were withdrawn in 1965, but that did not resolve differences or paper over history.

I found an article about Patriarch Athenagoras of blessed memory, in which he reflected on the problems of Christianity in the modern world. Much of what he said describes problems of attitudes held by some in both the east and west.

More can be found at:

http://www.stpaulsirvine.org/html/athenagoras.htm

The excerpts below are taken from a book, Conversations with Patriarch Athenagoras written by the French Orthodox theologian and writer, Olivier Clement in 1969.








Just some food for thought, from someone far more thoughtful, prayerful, and knowledgeable than I.

It seems to me to apply to both sides --- failure to give an open welcome --- failure to try seeing the best in others. I do it myself more often than not.

No one who receives Communion in a Catholic Church is worthy to receive, but all need to receive.

The Orthodox are welcome, but are not encouraged to break their own Church's rules.

That kind of begs the question and it should be kept in mind that this IS a Catholic Forum first and foremost. Let's be respectful. Your post had nothing at all to do with Knightwolf's OP.

Guys... Perhaps because the Eastern Catholics are so good to us we forget where we are. This is a Catholic sight. Also, these posts have nothing at all to do wtih the OP. His question was NOT what we think about ourselves but how The Vatican Church views us. Please show me how any of these posts above answer in anyway his question.

Stop. It's amazingly tacky.

Xpy

Xpy
As we keep saying here - this is an Eastern Forum NOT an Eastern Catholic one

At the bottom of the page you will see

All are welcome - providing they stick to the rules - which can probably be best summed up as "be nice to folk and don't start fights "

For those interested,

The current issue (March 2008) of Homiletic and Pastoral Review has an article titled, "What is the Church of Christ?"

The article cites various documents from the Second Vatican Council. It also deals with the intrepretation of "subsists in" as well as the correct use of the term "sister churches".

Thought you'd like to know.

I definitely stand corrected on a major point I was (wrongly) trying to make.

However, my other point still stands and is important. The posts in question had nothing to do with answering the OP.

Thank you for straightening me out on that. I definitely was not aware of that important distinction.

I agree with Xpycoctomos. I have no problem with the posts by Marian and AMM as they are a simple statement of Orthodox belief. Etnick's post is extremely tacky.

The Byzantine Forum is an ecumenical forum that is hosted by Byzantine Catholics. All points of view are welcome so long as they are expressed with charity. Etnick has been asked on a number of occasions to be charitable in his comments. When he does not speak with charity he does not show Orthodoxy in its best light. Orthodoxy deserves better than the tackiness Etnick tarnishes it with.

As a Latin Rite Catholic (looking East) I realize that the True Church is comprised of the Eastern Orthodox and Western Roman Catholics, though they may not fully realize it and certainly have issues to work out before 'formal and visible' union is acheived.

However, ironically, what never is said seems obvious to me: the best reflection of the True Church are the Eastern Catholic Churches! They are able to draw treasures from the Orthodox (with the common Byzantine Liturgy, Jesus Prayer and other practices and devotions) as well as from the West (Rosary, Stations of the Cross, etc.). The Eastern Catholic Churches today are an icon of the united True Church of the future.