www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Hello--is this the proper forum to introduce myself?

Hi All,
I've posted several replies over the past week, but I've been trying to figure out which forum to use to introduce myself.

I am a 30-year old Roman Catholic, father of 5 (4 on earth), disabled (Marfan syndrome) adjunct English instructor.

I was a spiritually and theologically precocious child (at the age of 12, I determined that there was no vocations crisis; just an overabundance of false Catholics). Due to my disability, I have always felt a sense of tension in my relationship with the Church.

My mother was always deeply traditional. My father, though more at home in the post-Vatican II Church, is a church musician and raised me with a deep respect for the musical traditions of both East and West (my paternal grandmother was Slovak).

I have long been interesteed in the Eastern Churches, and in exploring that part of my personal and Catholic heritage.

I lived in Fredericksburg, VA, for five years, which helped my spiritual path in many ways. First, there was a locally celebrated Vatican II Mass in Latin. Second, there's the TLM parish, St. Joseph's, in Richmond, which my wife and I visited on several occasions. Then we visited St. Anthony Maronite, and I fell in love with the Maronite liturgy.

I kept wondering what would happen if I ever attended a Byzantine liturgy-if, somehow, that part of my ancestry was calling to me.

Last year, we moved to Columbia, SC. Two weeks ago, we had dinner with some friends, and I found out that my friend is a Melkite, though he's lived his entire life in Roman practice. By coincidence, the following weekend, we decided to take a last-minute trip to Atlanta for a "retreat" we found out about (it was pretty lame, actually).

But one of the reasons I wanted to go was to attend Divine Liturgy at Epiphany Ruthenian Church in Roswell. It was exactly as I'd hoped: the Divine Liturgy really spoke to me. _Deja vu_ is the best I can describe it. As far as I know, it's the first time I'd ever been to a Byzantine liturgy--except maybe as a kid--and, yet, I felt at home, like I'd been doing it my whole life.

Thankfully, they also had a parish bookstore, and I picked up a bunch of resources, including a nice little _Byzantine Prayer Book_ that I've worked seemlessly into my daily prayer routine.

There's a Melkite church in Augusta, so I'm thinking of talking to my friend about driving there together once a month or so.

I'm not sure what God wants me to do with all of this, but the strange thing is, I feel less tension at Mass now. I have a greater sense of equilibrium about me.

Well welcome! Some of the folks on here go there. I enjoyed your story, more need to share their journies with us. Thanks so much!

Welcome to the forum.

C. I. X.

John Hathaway

Welcome. You may be embarking on a mystical life that may have been the reality at the end of the 1st millennium in eparches which today would include Slovakia. It appears several different churches evangelized the same Gospel in their particular witness, even from shared monasteries. Then the faithful took advantage in accordance with their own needs as all were interacting members of the one, holy, apostolic, catholic church of the orthodox faith. In the 1300�s Lviv became an unusual seat for the cathedrals of the Greek, Latin and Armenian Churches. With the turn of this century Lviv was seat to two Catholic cardinals, one Latin the other Greco (Ukrainian) Catholic. Its too bad today such inclusive history of cooperation is skirted by a bigger picture of exclusive chauvinism. An ancient domestic church ritual which is shared from Poland to Russia and Lithuania to Ukraine is presented in accordance with Ukrainian norms in http://www.ukraivin.com/ . This vegan �Holy Supper� experience presentation you may wish to look out for to enhance your library.

John,

Welcome to our internet family. Feel free to ask, ask, and ask more.

Many years,

Neil

Welcome, John !

Thanks, fellows!
Neil, you used to be on Pillar & Foundation, right?

John,

Welcome!! I pray that the Lord leads you to a deeper union with Him through your desire to worship Him more fully.


May I ask why your disability causes you to feel a sense of tension with the Church? (I know nothing about Marfan syndrome)

Hello Francis,

(John, correct me if I'm wrong)...

From my experience as a Deaf man, there's always tension with the Church when it comes to disability. Many times the people in Church, especially the priests, don't "give room" for disabled people, especially in their hearts, fellowship, equal treatment (meaning no special treatment because we are "G-d's special angels" which can be UN-intentionally insulting).

Deaf people are treated in the last place in the Church.

Don't even get me started with "Saint" Augustine.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

What he said.

1. It's one thing to be charitable to "the stranger." It's quite another when it's right with you. People--Catholic or otherwise--find it much easier to feel "compassion" for someone who suffers--disability, poverty, mental illness, whatever--the more "Other" that person is (other race, other religion). If it's the person of their own race and religion, in the same pew, they scoff.
2. Charismatics. Charismatic spirituality emphasizes the false idea that God will heal anyone who has faith enough, and that, if you're sick, it's because you don't have faith. They will say that to your face, but, if you confront them with it, they deny that's what they mean. In any case, between the charismatics and the snobs, you get a lot of scornful treatment as a disabled Catholic.
3. Theologically and spiritually, the Church doesn't really seem capable of grasping with "birth defects." There's the old idea that genetic issues are part of original sin, and that it's the devil's work, or whatever. There may be some truth to that, but I think it's giving the devil far too much power over God's creation, and it leads (as in 2) to discriminatory treatment against the disabled.
4. Thus, how many people with *lifelong* disabilities have been canonized? I'm not talking about saints who suffered disabilities form being injured or tortured, or who developed adult problems like TB or arthritis. How many canonized saints had genuine birth defects? None that I know of.
5. How many Blesseds had birth defects. Two that I know of: Margaret of Costello and Hermanus Contractus. They're the exceptions that prove the rule, since they've both been waiting for centuries to be canonized. Bl. Herman was one of the most respected scholars of his day--while he was confined to a monastery, he was a genius in many fields, and people would come from all over Europe to meet him. Benedictines name colleges after him. He wrote or arranged (depending upon whom you ask) the four Marian Antiphons for Night Prayer (Alma Redemptoris, Salve Regina, Ave Regina and Regina Coeli).
Bl. Margaret was dumped off by her aristocratic parents to be raised by the Church. She spent much of her life as a professional beggar and anchoress. She joined several convents but was unsuccessful. She was a wonderworker, and the people begged the Church to consider her cause for canonization when the hierarchy just wanted to bury her as a common beggar.

6. Many Sundays, I do not make it to Mass because of my health. Thankfully, I know I'm free of my Sunday obligation. But it's still spiritually draining. And I can't get on the "sick list" because I'm not "consistently" sick, or whatever. I never know till the last Sunday Mass if I'm not making it to Mass that weekend. There's no way to just call and say, "I'm having a 'bad chest day.' Can someone bring me COmmunion?"

7. My whole life, I've been ridiculed by my clssmates because of my disability--even at CCD.

I could go on, but I hope that gives something of a picture.

I read a little biography of Blessed Margaret of Costello. Her suffering was seen as grueling or embarrassing, yet her love for Christ led her gaze away from her physical handicap to focus on the spiritual poverty of those around her. She was a blessing to many.

There is a lady at my home parish who has mental and physical handicaps. I remember one time I greeted her kindly I told her that I was glad to see her. She smiled as if she didn't hear that often. That surprised me. It�s hard to understand what she goes through when I am not as �other� as she is perceived to be.

Terry

JC:

I, too, have a permanent disability that gives me constant, unrelenting pain. Send me a pm.

In Christ,

BOB

Hello John,

I do not agree with the possibility that birth defects is result of sin. I originally grew up thinking that it was because of sins...but now I'm an adult...I realize that it is not so.

People in the Bible even debated whether or not a disabled man is in result of his parent's sins...and Jesus replied that it's not the case...but it was done for the glory of G-d.

Now, I believe that G-d created those with what you call "birth-defect" (I don't see "birth defect" that way)...for all people...so that these people will LEARN to tolerate ALL people. Obviously the people in the Church continue to ignore that call to be tolerate and loving to ALL people regardless of status...disability...race...gender...and even sexual orientation. We are NOT to judge others but to love all just as G-d loves.

Yes, I am Deaf, but I do NOT have hearing loss! "How can that be" you'd ask. My answer is that I was BORN Deaf...so therefore there was NO hearing loss....I had NO loss to begin with. I was BORN that way just as G-d intended.

That is HOW Deaf people see themselves...being Deaf...not "hearing impaired" or "those with hearing loss."

Now, if I was born hearing and then later I lose my hearing...then that IS hearing loss.

To say that I have hearing loss even if I was born Deaf is a HUGE Audist statement.

The Church has LONG way to go to purge out of audism....especially when "Saint" Augustine is probably one of the major contributor of audism in the world of Western Christianity. Shame!

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine
Anti-Audist
Deaf Byzantine

Hi! Could you tell me what the name of the prayer book is?

Thanks, and welcome!

Andrea

Hi John,

Well come to the forum.



For what it's worth, this is not the official position of Catholic Charismatic Movements in good standing, such as the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

But yes, unfortunately, there are many Christians and Catholics among them, who would style themselves as "Charismatic" who subscribe to that idea.

Rally, charism means "gift" and the idea of being healed if you have enough faith (especially when stated in the negative: you are not healed because you do not have enough faith) makes the healing much more a reward than a gift.

What the Charismatic movement is actually all about is an experience of faith with the Risen Lord, an experience open to, but not dependent on Pentecostal phenomena, such as speaking in tongues, visions, healings, etc.

In my experience, people with disabilities in Charismatic prayer groups have no greater "risks" of being or feeling left out than in any other kind of group. That being said, the spontaneous nature of Charismatic prayer could be less stressful for people with disabilities, because you are not supposed to do any particular thing at any particular time. You pray the way you can, as the Spirit moves you to pray.

God bless!

Shalom,
Memo