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"it simply means 'go, it is the dismissal'. it's not obscure at all."
Actually, as you noted, "Missa est," is the perfect passive participle of "to send". So it is not "Go; it is the dismissal." When I started to familiarize myself with the Latin Mass over a decade ago, shortly after taking Latin in college, this phrase confused me. Since the "English transation" is, "The Mass has ended; go in peace," I couldn't figure out how that came from "Ite, missa est."

Perfect is "completed" past tense. It is also in the third person feminine.
"You are sent" would be "Ite, Missa es" (singular) or "Ite, Missa estis" (plural).
Masculine third person would be "missus est"; neuter would be "missum est."
(In a passive perfect verb tense, the verb root basically becomes an adjective, and the verb "to be" is attached).

So, if we were to translate the phrase into English *literally*, it would read "Go, she is sent." (Score one for the feminists).

So, the question that threw me was, "What feminine noun is this referring to?"
It's clearly *not* the congregation (or it would be second person).
"Hostia" and "Eucharistica" are both feminine nouns, so my rendering becomes, "Go; Communion is sent."

link [newadvent.org]

Literally: Go, the mission is

It is a military dismissal after receiving a mission briefing: You have your orders. Dismissed!

One of the strongest influences in early Latin spirituality was the military. The very word "sacrament" comes from the military oath of loyalty, genuflection was the normative body posture for a soldier coming before a very high-ranking superior officer (a general or the emperor himself), etc.

One of the popular views about the liturgy was that, in His Word, our Commanding Officer, the Lord Jesus Christ, briefed us in the stragegy of spiritual combat, and through His Body and Blood, He armed us, spiritually, to go out and spread His kingdom both through personal conversion (inwards), missionary activity (outwards) and mutual support and edification (upwards).

Shalom,
Memo

Dear friends

If you research the Gallican Liturgy you will find that "Missa" is one of several words meaning "prayer"
Here is the reference:

"The Priest usually said with the "Dominus sit semper vobiscum" another prayer called "Missa." It is the first of the seven prayers of St. Isidore. It is plainly an opening prayer, the opening of the Mass of the Faithful, a prayer to prepare them for the Sacrifice. It varies according to the Feasts and liturgical epochs and is addressed sometimes to the faithful, "dilectissimi fratres;" sometimes to God the Father or to Our Lord. The Missal of Bobbio gives a similar prayer, but this often has no title. Once it is called (as here) "Missa;" another time "Collectio," and twice, "Praefatio." In the other Gallican Sacramentaries it is called "Praefatio," or "Praefatio Missae." The title "Oratio" is also given to it in the "Missale Mixtum".

The "Missa" is sometimes an invocation of the Father or the Son; sometimes a series of pious exclamations; sometimes again a lyrical chant in honor of the mystery or of the martyr whose Feast the Church is celebrating. Sometimes it is preceded by an "Apologia sacerdotis." After the "Missa" the clergy responded: "Agie, agie, agie," etc. Then the Priest said: "Erigite vos" ("Liber ordinum," cols. 234, 235, and 186, 191; "Liber Sacramentorum Mozarabicus," p. xx.).


In two MSS. quoted by Dom Ferotin the words of Institution are preceded by the title "Missa secreta;" and he gives another example in which the "Post Sanctus" is called "Post Missam secretam," which clearly show that at that time this part of the Canon was said in a low voice (ibid.). (end quote)

From this it seems to me that Missa (= Prayer)came to be used for the Eucharistic Prayer or Anaphora and that "ite missa est" (which is gramatically odd does not mean "Go away now" as we usually think, but "the Prayer has been offered".

Peace be with you all

As we can see, the debate continues to this day... LOL.

Now, those two explanations make sense about the "missa" part, but I still don't understand the "est" part. If it's not passive perfect, then it's a subjective noun and a third person verb.

Put another way, if you're saying, "Socrates is a man" in Latin, what case would "man" be in?

I figured out what the dismissal means some time ago. It means, turn off the organ, turn off the lights, lock the choir loft, go home, have lunch, then nap.

Well, "man" is nominative.

As to whether "missa est" is passive perfect, I think it is, that wouldn't prevent "missa" also being used as a noun in the same way as "status", which is likewise a past participle.

In fact "missa" is also the etymology of "mess" as in "mess of pottage" where it represents the French "mets" i.e. a dish "placed" or "served", the semantics being the same as "offerendum" - "something presented" which gives the Gaelic for the Mass "aifrionn" (That's the Scottish form, Irish may be slightly different). Although the grammar of "Ite, missa est" remains a little tricky, the above explanation means we don't have to believe that the dismissal became the word for the Service of God

perhaps the easiest answer is: the phrase 'ite, missa est' is, like much of the roman mass and vulgate, simply bad latin?

i often wonder how often st jerome, being a ciceronian, shuddered when translating the bible into the awful vulgar latin of his day.

You are correct, Edward. The Latin scholars and teachers in my area shudder when they discuss Church Latin in any context.

X. B.

Remember St. Jerome translated Scripture into his first language Hieronymian, a Slavonic derivative then into Latin. Ss Cyril and Methodius was aided by finding St. Jerome from Dalmatia's primary translations.

I don't know about that... I mean, the logic is sound, but it doesn't show that it must be or even probably is the Eucharist. I mean, it could be (it would make sense), but what real scholarship do you base that on.

Nevertheless, if it's only from your personal conclusions, it's an interesting thought.

I'm going with that (within the context) it means Mission or Prayer... and not dismissed. I mean, it would be really odd not only that the common people would replace an appropriate word "Liturgy" with a word meaning "dismissed" but if that were true it would seem almost irresponsible that the vatican would take on such a very mundane and stupid word for the most holy ritual availble to the Church. However, if the Mass (or La misa or La masse) comes from a word that was understood to refer to the prayer or the mission... that makes sense then and seems like a term that is quite compatible with Liturgy.

So, I base that ONLY on the scholarship adn suppositions presented here... but I like those answers better than the lame "It is dismissed". I would like to think that the Catholic Church wouldn't take on the official name of it's liturgy to be "The Dismissal" lol

All of this Latin grammar is *not* helping my motivation to catch up to my daughter in her classes

hawk

my favourite 'bad latin' moment is the psalm that begins 'de profundis clamaui ad te domine'...

'um, lord, i've been talking to you about these depths'. cracks me up every time.