www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Saudis to Pope: Recognize Muhammad

Here here Fr Serge!
Bravo! Now thats talking.
Stephanos I

Dear Anthony,

Your point is well taken, and I am sorry that the Syriac communities slipped my mind. The religious genocide of the Turks has left no Christians in Edessa, which is an historic seat of the Church of the East, the Chaldean Catholics, and the Sooriyani.

It is crucial that all the remaining Christians in Turkey, and all the Christians around the world who are aware of the horrible situation in Turkey, should stand together, in solidarity.

God be merciful to us!

Fr. Serge

I would like to see Pope Benedict take this opportunity to turn the challenge right back at them and ask, OK, just why should I recognize Muhammad as a prophet?

God willing, this could actually get them to begin thinking in terms of the fact that their beliefs are not simply self-evident to any right-thinking person ...


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Decaon Richard:

And the next question is "of whom"?

BOB

Fr. Serge,

Father bless!

I am really hoping that this application for EU from Turkey would really bring to the forefront this issue that a state still refuses to acknowledge systematic genocide. I'm happy to see that we are seeing this issue being addressed and discussed in Western academia and among Western governments. One of the latest lecture I went to on this topic was by a professor who I believe was Swedish. His book on his research shows alot of documents that point to just how systematic of a genocide it was.

I think at the bottom of Turkey's refusal, however, is what many on this thread have alluded to. Islam can easily be used to defend these acts, which were not specifically ethnic cleansing, but religiously motivated.

In Him,
Anthony

I believe Mohammud was a false prophet. However, you have to admit that Christianity from the late 3rd to the 7th centuries was sort of "up in the air." It took several hundred years to just understand exactly who Jesus was. I would venture to guess that a generally unintelligent population would find this very confusing and would prefer a more direct and timely revelation. Mohammud or anyone else who was there could fill that need. Perhaps if Christianity wouldn't have been fought over, argued about, fragmented, maybe it would have taken hold in the middle east.

Yes, spot on Father Serge !

Converted Viking

Actually, at least as I understood Church history and the early history of Islam, Christianity definitely had "taken hold in the middle east"--though not so much on the Arabian Peninsula. Christianity was rather firmly established in much of what we call the Middle East. Much of the population of the Arabian Peninsula was pagan when Muhammad came upon the scene (although there were pockets of both Jews and Christians). It was only after the caliphs began conquering beyond the Arabian Peninsula that so much of the Middle East began to become predominantly Muslim.

Ryan

"It took several hundred years to just understand exactly who Jesus was."

Have we have mastered the mystery of the Trinity today? One can speak of the exactness of mathematics and science, but those understandings are manmade. Perhaps it would be best to be cautious when claiming exactness when dealing with the mysteries.

We may have a mature understanding, but have we plumbed the depths of Christ's nature as it is?

Correct me if I am mistaken and we have plumbed the depths of Christ�s nature and have an exact understanding of Him. I would like to read the work which has accomplished that feat.

Terry

Christianity had taken a hold in the Middle East, and far out into Asia as well. Just as it had taken a hold in the Levant, and what is now called Turkey, but was once the Roman Empire {aka Byzantine}. And I take Terry's point as well, but I think what Theologos was refering to was the Christological disputes that were so flagrant and led to many Christians being marginalized.

Although the Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Church of the East all were concerned with safeguarding their own approach to the salvific role of Christ, in the end it is seen that His divine and human natures were safeguarded by all 3 sides. They were zealous, but we cannot fault too much since who among us would not admit to being zealous for the Truth, even while knowing the Truth will prevail against all. And there was politics also involved, and intoleration and persecution between the 3 sides. And so people were no longer inclined to unite with each other against outside threats, but welcomed the yoke of Islam hoping it to be lighter than that which they were under.

Those within the Persian Empire, would see the replacement of one oppressive non-Christian system {Zoroastrian} by another non-Christian system {Islam} and could only weather what was to come.

The Christianity had taken root in the Middle East, but it was to be oppressed and persecuted over centuries and centuries. Sorry for the short and rushed answer. I had little time and was unable to elucidate much further.

Peace,
Anthony

How about North Africa? All those lands were once Christian, too.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Dear Dn Richard,

Of course! Where, after all, is Alexandria? Or Hippo or Carthage?

Peace,
Anthony

I agree. Sometimes we Christians can be our own worst adversaries, contrary to what Christ expects of us. Had we never split up in the Christological controversies, Islam would have probably never arisen to such a devastating force across that part of the world.

It is easier to conquer a divided Christianity, than a united one. Only the grace and promise of Christ to be with us to the end has kept us safe from complete annihilation by the forces of evil.

I mean, I look at our own Church of the East, and I marvel at the fact that with all the demonic fury of the Muslim warlord Tamerlane unleashed against us, devastating most of our Church, we still were able to survive his holocaust. This is a testimony of Christ's protection over us, because there is just no other explanation for it. We should not have survived that onslaught, but we did, thanks be to God! And we will, by the grace of Christ, continue to survive, even the current crises in Iraq.

To go back to the topic of this thread, the Pope will never recognize Muhammad, no Christian who loves his faith will recognize Muhammad without betraying the countless of our Christian forefathers who were murdered in the name of Islam.

God bless,

Rony

Shlomo Rony waAnthony,

First a couple of points have to be made. The Zorastrians were never heavy persecutors of Christians. The reason that the Church of the East florished was because of the schism between that Church and the Catholic Church.

As to the divide between Oriental Orthodoxy and and the Catholic Church (which in this meaning is both the present day Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodoxy) can be laid directly at the feet of the Byzantine Empire and religious heirarchs. We Maronites are a perfect example. We have been shown to be totally Orthodox, but yet were attacked by Imperial forces because we would not conform to the Byzantine Liturgical style.

One of the main reasons that Oriental Orthodoxy arose, was because the Armenian and Syriac Eparchs were closed out of the Council of Chalcedon, and protested against the idea of adopting canons they were not permitted to participate in formulating said canons. We Maronites did participate, and that is why we were and are supporters of the Chalcedonian Canons, but I can understand why my fellow Middle Eastern Christians did not feel that they were heard and therefore the forumla is not something they should follow.

I will followup with more.

Poosh baShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Yuhannon:

Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!!
Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!!

Actually it seems to me to be rather logical why the Church of the East survived and flourished in the Persian Empire. Christians inside that empire couldn't look like they were tied to a foreign power or to the official religion of a foreign power or they might be perceived as spies or a fifth column. But simply proclaiming Christ and focusing on Him alone, without being involved in the controversies of another rival empire, would allow them to pursue the Great Commission without drawing animosity within the place they lived.

In Christ,

BOB