www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Papal Authority

ELIZABETH MARIA:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

I don't know the reference source you cite so I can't speak to it directly. However, if it has a date far removed from the Second Vatican Council, it may no longer apply or be currently considered as to be too one-sided. I'm always wary of textual citations that are made from sources that predate Vatican II unless they are interpreted according to how the Church is currently saying they should be understood.

My understanding is that as the Church digested Vatican I, she realized that it was incomplete. Vatican I spoke to certain issues of the day, but did not finish the whole task of defining the whole of what the Church was about in the world today. Vatican II came about because the need was to complete the description of what the Church was about. Vatican I was a response to the strong possibility that the Catholic Church in the West would fragment into national Churches vaguely related to each other. The need was to keep the idea of the universality of the Church alive. Vatican II rounded this out with the idea--patristic in origin--that the local Church is also the fullness of the universal Church. It brings the multi-layered understanding of this Mystery we're all involved in into a bit better focus.

In Christ,

BOB

Doublethink is a fascinating talent.

As to Unam Sanctam of Boniface VIII, try reading the famous Letter to the Archbishop of Boston regarding Father Leonard Feeney - the Letter is quoted in Vatican II.

As to Pastor Aeternus (and if you don't know what that is, why are you reading this thread?), just read the text for openers - never have I seen another document that uses such exalted language to say so little.

The translation I was asked for:

"The Pope is God on earth. Jesus has set him above the angels, above the Forerunner [John the Baptist}, above the Madonna" (Meditations of John Bosco).

and the suggested addition:

"The Pope is above EVERYBODY!"

Fr. Serge

Wow...I think I would sleep better if that had been kept in the original Italian!

Gordo

"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Well, there you have at least one difference between the Catholic and Orthodox positions.

Yes, The Church Teaches, edited by the Jesuit Fathers of St. Mary's, is a pre-Vatican II college textbook that several scholarly Dominican priests used in their college classes at several Catholic universities well into the late 1970s. It records all of the canonical documents of the Seven Ecumenical Councils as well as several local councils and Vatican I. Papal Supremacy and Papal Infallibility were defined in such terms that any Roman Catholic not believing in them would be subjected to the anathema mentioned in the canons of Vatican I.

After studying that book in depth, I told my Catholic confessor that I no longer believed in papal supremacy, but believed that the Church was conciliar and apostolic. He said that I could not call myself a Roman Catholic if that were the case and suggested that I contact Catholic Answers. After my friends and I discussed papal infallibility and papal supremacy with members of Catholic Answers, we visited the nearest Orthodox Church and became inquirers, catechumens, and were eventually chrismated.

Dear Francis,

What has you hepped on Unam Sanctam?

The reason why it is not "infallible" is quite simple: the Church has not received it. Magic words are not enough.

Fr. Serge

Fr. Serge,

I am a Roman Catholic and I believe it is the desire of Jesus for all his followers to be in communion with the bishop of Rome. I submit to all the teachings of the Catholic Church - including the doctrines of papal infallibility and universal jurisdiction. I even see the wisdom and protection of such doctrines. However, I am struggling with reconciling Unam Sanctam with Roman Catholic theology regarding papal infallibility. I cannot so easily dismiss the Papal Bull because the Church did not receive it, because that is not part of the criteria of papal infallibility. Pastor Aeternus clearly states,


And it is not a matter of "magic words" - the Bull clearly fits all the criteria established in Pastor Aeternus for infallible definitions.

But at the same time, I cannot accept at face value what this Bull declares, as it goes against (at least on the surface) modern Catholic theology regarding the Orthodox, which I do accept. I have heard arguments that, properly understood, Unam Sanctam does not contradict modern Catholic teaching, but I simply do not see it that way.

I'm more than willing to accept my own limitations and submit to the Church, but this dichotomy in my mind is something I'd like to resolve.

BTW, here is as good of a reconciliation of Unam Sanctam with modern Catholic theology that I've found:

Just Exactly Where is the Church? [mark-shea.com]

But I admit I'm not totally convinced by it.

Courtsey of the Catholic Culture Library...


The Primacy of the Successor of Peter in the Mystery of the Church
by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger

1. At this moment in the Church's life, the question of the primacy of Peter and of his Successors has exceptional importance as well as ecumenical significance. John Paul II has frequently spoken of this, particularly in the Encyclical Ut unum sint, in which he extended an invitation especially to pastors and theologians to "find a way of exercising the primacy which, while in no way renouncing what is essential to its mission, is nonetheless open to a new situation".[1]


In answer to the Holy Father's invitation, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith decided to study the matter by organizing a strictly doctrinal symposium on The Primacy of the Successor of Peter, which was held in the Vatican from 2 to 4 December 1996. Its Proceedings have recently been published.[2]


2. In his Message to those attending the symposium, the Holy Father wrote: "The Catholic Church is conscious of having preserved, in fidelity to the Apostolic Tradition and the faith of the Fathers, the ministry of the Successor of Peter".[3] In the history of the Church, there is a continuity of doctrinal development on the primacy. In preparing the present text, which appears in the Appendix of the above-mentioned Proceedings,[4] the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has used the contributions of the scholars who took part in the symposium, but without intending to offer a synthesis of them or to go into questions requiring further study. These "Reflections" � appended to the symposium � are meant only to recall the essential points of Catholic doctrine on the primacy, Christ's great gift to his Church because it is a necessary service to unity and, as history shows, it has often defended the freedom of Bishops and the particular Churches against the interference of political authorities.


I


Origin, Purpose and Nature of the Primacy


3. "First Simon, who is called Peter".[5] With this significant emphasis on the primacy of Simon Peter, St Matthew inserts in his Gospel the list of the Twelve Apostles, which also begins with the name of Simon in the other two synoptic Gospels and in Acts.[6] This list, which has great evidential force, and other Gospel passages[7] show clearly and simply that the New Testament canon received what Christ said about Peter and his role in the group of the Twelve.[8] Thus, in the early Christian communities, as later throughout the Church, the image of Peter remained fixed as that of the Apostle who, despite his human weakness, was expressly assigned by Christ to the first place among the Twelve and was called to exercise a distinctive, specific task in the Church. He is the rock on which Christ will build his Church;[9] he is the one, after he has been converted, whose faith will not fail and who will strengthen his brethren;[10] lastly, he is the Shepherd who will lead the whole community of the Lord's disciples.[11]


In Peter's person, mission and ministry, in his presence and death in Rome � attested by the most ancient literary and archaeological tradition � the Church sees a deeper reality essentially related to her own mystery of communion and salvation: "Ubi Petrus, ibi ergo Ecclesia".[12] From the beginning and with increasing clarity, the Church has understood that, just as there is a succession of the Apostles in the ministry of Bishops, so too the ministry of unity entrusted to Peter belongs to the permanent structure of Christ's Church and that this succession is established in the see of his martyrdom.


4. On the basis of the New Testament witness, the Catholic Church teaches, as a doctrine of faith, that the Bishop of Rome is the Successor of Peter in his primatial service in the universal Church;[13] this succession explains the pre-eminence of the Church of Rome,[14] enriched also by the preaching and martyrdom of St Paul.


In the divine plan for the primacy as "the office that was given individually by the Lord to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be handed on to his successors",[15] we already see the purpose of the Petrine charism, i.e., "the unity of faith and communion"[16] of all believers. The Roman Pontiff, as the Successor of Peter, is "the perpetual and visible principle and foundation of unity both of the Bishops and of the multitude of the faithful",[17] and therefore he has a specific ministerial grace for serving that unity of faith and communion which is necessary for the Church to fulfil her saving mission.[18]


5. The Constitution Pastor aeternus of the First Vatican Council indicated the purpose of the Primacy in its Prologue and then dedicated the body of the text to explaining the content or scope of its power. The Second Vatican Council, in turn, reaffirmed and completed the teaching of Vatican I,[19] addressing primarily the theme of its purpose, with particular attention to the mystery of the Church as Corpus Ecclesiarum.[20] This consideration allowed for a clearer exposition of how the primatial office of the Bishop of Rome and the office of the other Bishops are not in opposition but in fundamental and essential harmony.[21]


Therefore, "when the Catholic Church affirms that the office of the Bishop of Rome corresponds to the will of Christ, she does not separate this office from the mission entrusted to the whole body of Bishops, who are also 'vicars and ambassadors of Christ' (Lumen gentium, n. 27). The Bishop of Rome is a member of the 'College', and the Bishops are his brothers in the ministry".[22] It should also be said, reciprocally, that episcopal collegiality does not stand in opposition to the personal exercise of the primacy nor should it relativize it.


6. All the Bishops are subjects of the sollicitudo omnium Ecclesiarum[23] as members of the Episcopal College which has succeeded to the College of the Apostles, to which the extraordinary figure of St Paul also belonged. This universal dimension of their episkope (overseeing) cannot be separated from the particular dimension of the offices entrusted to them.[24] In the case of the Bishop of Rome � Vicar of Christ in the way proper to Peter as Head of the College of Bishops[25] � the sollicitudo omnium Ecclesiarum acquires particular force because it is combined with the full and supreme power in the Church:[26] a truly episcopal power, not only supreme, full and universal, but also immediate, over all pastors and other faithful.[27] The ministry of Peter's Successor, therefore, is not a service that reaches each Church from outside, but is inscribed in the heart of each particular Church, in which "the Church of Christ is truly present and active",[28] and for this reason it includes openness to the ministry of unity. This interiority of the Bishop of Rome's ministry to each particular Church is also an expression of the mutual interiority between universal Church and particular Church.[29]


The episcopacy and the primacy, reciprocally related and inseparable, are of divine institution. Historically there arose forms of ecclesiastical organization instituted by the Church in which a primatial principle was also practised. In particular, the Catholic Church is well aware of the role of the apostolic sees in the early Church, especially those considered Petrine � Antioch and Alexandria � as reference-points of the Apostolic Tradition, and around which the patriarchal system developed; this system is one of the ways God's Providence guides the Church and from the beginning it has included a relation to the Petrine tradition.[30]


II


The Exercise of the Primacy and Its Forms


7. The exercise of the Petrine ministry must be understood � so that it "may lose nothing of its authenticity and transparency"[31] � on the basis of the Gospel, that is, on its essential place in the saving mystery of Christ and the building-up of the Church. The primacy differs in its essence and in its exercise from the offices of governance found in human societies:[32] it is not an office of co-ordination or management, nor can it be reduced to a primacy of honour, or be conceived as a political monarchy.


The Roman Pontiff � like all the faithful � is subject to the Word of God, to the Catholic faith, and is the guarantor of the Church's obedience; in this sense he is servus servorum Dei. He does not make arbitrary decisions, but is spokesman for the will of the Lord, who speaks to man in the Scriptures lived and interpreted by Tradition; in other words, the episkope of the primacy has limits set by divine law and by the Church's divine, inviolable constitution found in Revelation.[33] The Successor of Peter is the rock which guarantees a rigorous fidelity to the Word of God against arbitrariness and conformism: hence the martyrological nature of his primacy.


8. The characteristics of exercising the primacy must be understood primarily on the basis of two fundamental premises: the unity of the episcopacy and the episcopal nature of the primacy itself. Since the episcopacy is "one and undivided",[34] the primacy of the Pope implies the authority effectively to serve the unity of all the Bishops and all the faithful, and "is exercised on various levels, including vigilance over the handing down of the Word, the celebration of the liturgy and the sacraments, the Church's mission, discipline and the Christian life";[35] on these levels, by the will of Christ, everyone in the Church � Bishops and the other faithful � owe obedience to the Successor of Peter, who is also the guarantor of the legitimate diversity of rites, disciplines and ecclesiastical structures between East and West.


9. Given its episcopal nature, the primacy of the Bishop of Rome is first of all expressed in transmitting the Word of God; thus it includes a specific, particular responsibility for the mission of evangelization,[36] since ecclesial communion is something essentially meant to be expanded: "Evangelization is the grace and vocation proper to the Church, her deepest identity".[37]


The Roman Pontiff's episcopal responsibility for transmission of the Word of God also extends within the whole Church. As such, it is a supreme and universal magisterial office;[38]," it is an office that involves a charism: the Holy Spirit's special assistance to the Successor of Peter, which also involves, in certain cases, the prerogative of infallibility.[39] Just as "all the Churches are in full and visible communion, because all the Pastors are in communion with Peter and therefore united in Christ",[40] in the same way the Bishops are witnesses of divine and Catholic truth when they teach in communion with the Roman Pontiff.[41]


10. Together with the magisterial role of the primacy, the mission of Peter's Successor for the whole Church entails the right to perform acts of ecclesiastical governance necessary or suited to promoting and defending the unity of faith and communion; one of these, for example, is to give the mandate for the ordination of new Bishops, requiring that they make the profession of Catholic faith; to help everyone continue in the faith professed. Obviously, there are many other possible ways, more or less contingent, of carrying out this service of unity: to issue laws for the whole Church, to establish pastoral structures to serve various particular Churches, to give binding force to the decisions of Particular Councils, to approve supradiocesan religious institutes, etc. Since the power of the primacy is supreme, there is no other authority to which the Roman Pontiff must juridically answer for his exercise of the gift he has received: "prima sedes a nemine iudicatur".[42] This does not mean, however, that the Pope has absolute power. Listening to what the Churches are saying is, in fact, an earmark of the ministry of unity, a consequence also of the unity of the Episcopal Body and of the sensus fidei of the entire People of God; and this bond seems to enjoy considerably greater power and certainty than the juridical authorities � an inadmissible hypothesis, moreover, because it is groundless � to which the Roman Pontiff would supposedly have to answer. The ultimate and absolute responsibility of the Pope is best guaranteed, on the one hand, by its relationship to Tradition and fraternal communion and, on the other, by trust in the assistance of the Holy Spirit who governs the Church.


II. The unity of the Church, which the ministry of Peter's Successor serves in a unique way, reaches its highest expression in the Eucharistic Sacrifice, which is the centre and root of ecclesial communion; this communion is also necessarily based on the unity of the Episcopate. Therefore, "every celebration of the Eucharist is performed in union not only with the proper Bishop, but also with the Pope, with the episcopal order, with all the clergy, and with the entire people. Every valid celebration of the Eucharist expresses this universal communion with Peter and with the whole Church, or objectively calls for it",[43] as in the case of the Churches which are not in full communion with the Apostolic See.


12. "The pilgrim Church, in its sacraments and institutions, which belong to this age, carries the mark of this world which is passing".[44] For this reason too, the immutable nature of the primacy of Peter's Successor has historically been expressed in different forms of exercise appropriate to the situation of a pilgrim Church in this changing world.


The concrete contents of its exercise distinguish the Petrine ministry insofar as they faithfully express the application of its ultimate purpose (the unity of the Church) to the circumstances of time and place. The greater or lesser extent of these concrete contents will depend in every age on the necessitas Ecclesiae. The Holy Spirit helps the Church to recognize this necessity, and the Roman Pontiff, by listening to the Spirit's voice in the Churches, looks for the answer and offers it when and how he considers it appropriate.


Consequently, the nucleus of the doctrine of faith concerning the competencies of the primacy cannot be determined by looking for the least number of functions exercised historically. Therefore, the fact that a particular task has been carried out by the primacy in a certain era does not mean by itself that this task should necessarily be reserved always to the Roman Pontiff; and, vice versa, the mere fact that a particular role was not previously exercised by the Pope does not warrant the conclusion that this role could not in some way be exercised in the future as a competence of the primacy.


13. In any case, it is essential to state that discerning whether the possible ways of exercising the Petrine ministry correspond to its nature is a discernment to be made in Ecclesia, i.e., with the assistance of the Holy Spirit and in fraternal dialogue between the Roman Pontiff and the other Bishops, according to the Church's concrete needs. But, at the same time, it is clear that only the Pope (or the Pope with an Ecumenical Council) has, as the Successor of Peter, the authority and the competence to say the last word on the ways to exercise his pastoral ministry in the universal Church.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


14. In recalling these essential points of Catholic doctrine on the primacy of Peter's Successor, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is certain that the authoritative reaffirmation of these doctrinal achievements offers greater clarity on the way to be followed. This reminder is also useful for avoiding the continual possibility of relapsing into biased and one-sided positions already rejected by the Church in the past (Febronianism, Gallicanism, ultramontanism, conciliarism, etc.). Above all, by seeing the ministry of the Servant of the servants of God as a great gift of divine mercy to the Church, we will all find �with the grace of the Holy Spirit � the energy to live and faithfully maintain fall and real union with the Roman Pontiff in the everyday life of the Church, in the way desired by Christ.[45]


15. The full communion which the Lord desires among those who profess themselves his disciples calls for the common recognition of a universal ecclesial ministry "in which all the Bishops recognize that they are united in Christ and all the faithful find confirmation for their faith".[46] The Catholic Church professes that this ministry is the primatial ministry of the Roman Pontiff, Successor of Peter, and maintains humbly and firmly "that the communion of the particular Churches with the Church of Rome, and of their Bishops with the Bishop of Rome, is � in God's plan � an essential requisite of full and visible communion".[47] Human en ors and even serious failings can be found in the history of the papacy: Peter himself acknowledged he was a sinner.[48] Peter, a weak man, was chosen as the rock precisely so that everyone could see that victory belongs to Christ alone and is not the result of human efforts. Down the ages the Lord has wished to put his treasure in fragile vessels:[49] human frailty has thus become a sign of the truth of God's promises.


When and how will the much-desired goal of the unity of all Christians be reached? "How to obtain it? Through hope in the Spirit, who can banish from us the painful memories of our separation. The Spirit is able to grant us clearsightedness, strength, and courage to take whatever steps are necessary, that our commitment may be ever more authentic".[50] We are all invited to trust in the Holy Spirit, to trust in Christ, by trusting in Peter.


* Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
Prefect
* Tarcisio Bertone Archbishop emeritus of Vercelli
Secretary


ENDNOTES


1 John Paul II, Encyc. Let. Ut unum sint, 25 May 1995, n. 95.


2 Il Primato del Successore di Pietro, Atti del Simposio teologico, Rome, 2-4 December 1996, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, Vatican City, 1998.


3 John Paul II, Letter to Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, in ibid., p. 20.


4 Il Primato del Successore di Pietro nel mistero

james

This document is wonderfully written and full of great insight!

The paragraph above is one of my favorites. It demonstrates how the Bishop of Rome is really also the Vicar of Peter (which is his more ancient title). It also gives some insight into the explicitly Petrine nature of the Pentarchy, although it is not explicitly mentioned here, and the intrinsic connection of every church to each other which is served by the Bishop of Rome in a unique way. The Fathers' reference to Rome as the "matrix" (womb) of Christian unity comes to mind here...

Thank you for posting this! Do you have a link?

Gordo

Gordo...

http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=711

Ah, yes: ex sese non ex consensu ecclesiae. Now go to the literature on Pastor Aeternus, and find out what that phrase means, what it modifies, and how it happens to be in Pastor Aeternus. You might just be surprised.

I met a parish priest in Dublin today - I was meeting him for the first time in my life - and I happened to mention that someone was disturbing the peace with regard to Pastor Aeternus. The good Father understandably burst out laughing - he thought I was joking. When I said that, alas, I was not joking, he suggested that you consult the recognized Catholic theological faculty of your choice. I might add that at the time of the reconciliation of Father Leonard Feeney and his community the Bishop of Worcester told them in exactly these words that the doctrine they are pushing is "a dead horse". I have not been informed of Rome breaking communion with Worcester - have you?

By attempting to push this "doctrine", which is emphatically NOT Catholic teaching, you are confusing people who have done nothing to deserve such abuse. Accepting your own limitations and submitting to the Church strike me as excellent ideas; do put them into practice.

By the way, I am not claiming personal infallibility. At least once I was hopelessly wrong on an important theological question. But I had the good sense to keep my mouth shut and eventually repent, when a plethora of evidence had accumulated to prove that I was wrong and - surprise - the Church was right.

Fr. Serge

Fr. Serge,


I believe you misunderstood my intentions - I am not "pushing" any doctrine. I am simply trying to understand it correctly. In fact, if it was up to me, I would simply reject the infallibility of Unam Sanctam and go on my way. But many respectable and orthodox Catholic theologians accept Unam Sanctam as infallible, and their arguments have much validity in my mind, and I am simply trying to explore the consequences that result if it is truly infallible.

To me, I think it is analogous to the doctrine Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. The Church has always held to this, and it is truly an infallible teaching. Yet, the Church today accepts that there might be those outside of the Church's visible communion who are in fact in the Church and therefore can be saved. Likewise, if the doctrine proclaimed by Unam Sanctam is infallibly true (and note the "if"), then it would stand to reason that there may be those who are not visibly "subject" to the bishop of Rome who are in fact subject to him invisibly, and thus can be saved.

These are simply my thoughts, and I was hoping for help in my thought process here - I am not looking to push any preconceived notion or pick a fight.

For a man who claims not to be trying to push this doctrine or to pick a fight, you are remarkably persistent. I fear that i've devoted as much time to the matter as I propose to.

If you want some congenial company, find the remaining adherents of the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (they run a publishing house somewhere - perhaps in New Hampshire).

If you wish to remain in full communion and good standing with that body outside of which there is no salvation, quit playing "oh, but then".

Fr. Serge

God's grace is vaster than some take it to be, but not as vast as others claim. Let us live faithfully and wait for this issue to be resolved at St. Peter's Gate. The bickering will be endless without authority and fruitless when we cannot change what has been. Unity is the work of the Holy Spirit. Let us pray rather than beat a dead horse.

Terry