www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Huge Chalices

Apparently, the Serbs also use one big chalice, or is this just an optical illusion?

http://manastir-lepavina.org/novosti/index.php/weblog/detaljnije/o_prieivanju_na_vaskrs/

I also seem to recall reading that when the Greeks went to the Council of Florence, the Latins were astonished at the size of the chalices they brought along... reputedly, the Greek chalices were thrice the size of the Latin ones (now, Latin chalices can be very small...)

From the looks of that chalice, I'd say it's of Russian provenance - and beautiful.

Fr. Serge

Now that is indeed a beautiful Chalice.

I can think of a little Church that could do with one that size for use at times.

Some Latins still use the practice of intinction, where the Precious Blood is put into a small chalice and the Host is then dipped into the wine and both species are given for Communion.

I've only ever seen it done in the Anthracite Coal Region of Eastern PA, however. Never anywhere else in the country. Then again, the Coal Region still have 40 Hours Devotions and the priests there even know what a Humeral Veil is!

I've seen intinction done here in CT a bit as well. I know some priests who do it in their parishes to prevent communion by hand.

The practice of drinking unconsecrated wine or water after receiving the Holy Mysteries is common in the Syriac/Malankara Church as well, although more common to Orthodox than Catholics.

domilsean:

Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!

We used to do it here in Central PA until our current bishop arrived and felt that the use of the Common Cup gave a "greater sign value." I had donated an intinction set to my parish as a memorial for my family members at that time. It's been sitting on a shelf for over 20 years now. It had a little cup in the center and the hosts rested in a circular area around it. With a lid, it could be stored int he tabernacle after the little cup was taken out to be abluted.

In Christ,

BOB

I'm now having visions of a "mother ship" chalice, either as a stand with a central cup and more detachable cups fashioned, or as sectional wedges that fasten as a single chalice for consecration . . .

Also, it's my understanding that tinctured hosts are actually forbidden in the RC church.

hawk

Intinction is not forbidden in the Roman (Latin) Catholic liturgy - [i]Self intinction[/i] is what is forbidden. The preceding quote and this subsequent one is found in one of the latest instructions pertaining to the (Latin Church) liturgy, Redemptionis Sacramentum#104 and #103, respectively :


This means that a person receives the host from the Priest/Deacon/EMHC and then takes that host to the chalice and dips It in the chalice on his own. This is a form of self-communication, which is reserved to priests alone (let alone the possible liturgical abuses).

Also, as posters have pointed out, intinction would prohibit Communion in the hand. If only!

However, as intinction in the Latin Church would risk the danger of spilling or dropping the Precious Blood on the floor, what would be a necessity would be communion (chin) patens which sadly have fallen out of use in many places. Or, like I experienced in Mexico, a cloth was held under the communicants' chins by servers or ushers, so that nothing of the sacred species would fall on the floor.

Jon:

Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!

I've administered Holy Communion with an intinction set and nothing of the kind happens if one is in no hurry. We were taught to dip the Host and gently tap it on the side of the cup to make sure that there was no Precious Blood that might drip as the Host was placed on the tongue of the communicant. The minister is supposed to move the entire intinction set close enough that any "drips" are caught in the set itself.

The problem as I see it is the idea that Holy Communion must be a race to see who can have his line finished first. The whole idea of having additonal ministers from the laity was to allow for the reverent distribution of the Holy Mysteries. Speed makes for mistakes, irreverence, and possible loss of the Host or Precious Blood.

In Christ,

BOB

As Fr. Serge pointed out above, not just Eastern Catholics, but also the Greek Orthodox.

Dn. Robert

Ahh. Thanks.

hawk

X. B!
C. I. X!
�What happened to one bread, one cup? Is this common�� quote

EVOLUTION. There is a considerable difference in parish territory from when one walked a half hour to church and to now as we drive a half hour. When one walked only the fit were expected. Today we should have handy cap accessibility welcoming all. With the �new� priest shortage they must accommodate larger numbers and service broader territories, and not only in miles but relevance. One church building today may accommodate several old time parishes. That includes a schedule so people can fit their worship schedule into their schedule of day care of children and the elderly plus all the other responsibilities that make up life today. That should include a schedule of different languages accommodation including salt and pepper mixes, style of delivery and ethnic custom usage. Now! I didn�t say extremes just SENSITIVITY. �My way or the highway� is not pastoral it is vanity. �One bread one cup� sounds like the motto for a club not parish. WWJD?

I think that this thread is moving beyond the initial question. It seems to me that there is an undercurrent of criticism developing over whether the use of one chalice versus multiple chalices is the "real way" to do things. We tend to become a bit unchristian when a simple question moves to arguments over whose practice is most Orthodox/orthodox and whose is closest to what Tradition calls for.

Let's refrain from arguing over this point.

I found the pictures of the large chalices fascinating and the reason to be reasonable from the point of view of those using them. Let's leave it there.

In Christ Who called us to focus on Him in the Eucharist, not on arguing over how we get Him to the believers physically,

BOB

And not just the Greeks, either. I was recently at a Serbian celebration where several chalices were consecrated, and have been similarly been at Ukrainian Orthodox liturgies where this was done.