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Dec 29th, 2019
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I find this very strange as a cradle Ukrainian Orthodox Christian. We are always taught not to receive sacraments from the Ukrainian Catholic Church. Ukrainians usually go to the Serbs first, Romanians second and Greeks third if there is no Ukrainian Orthodox parish available. It is sad that two Orthodox traditions that are so close to each other, the Ukrainian and the Russian are at such odds. Where should a Russian Orthodox Christian feel most at home outside of a Russian church? A Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Where should a Ukrainian Orthodox Christian feel most at home outside of a Ukrainian church? A Russian Orthodox Church. Philetism is one of the greatest problems in Orthodoxy. Fr David Straut
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I hope that this parish is an exception to the rule, although I have heard and read that the Romanian Catholics are engaging in an alarming amount of Latinization and Novus-Ordoization. (I hope that it's all a lie) There are some other very Latinized churches, such as this one in Cluj: [ Linked Image] But then again, here's another one in Cluj, consecrated last September: [ Linked Image] Dave
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"Down here" we frequently have Ukrainian Orthodox attend our UGCC parishes and missions and approach for Communion because of the distance involved in access to their own clergy. Most of them seem uninterested in attending the all-English OCA or Antiochian parishes in the area; quite simply they feel more at home in our UGCC communities. This is especially prevalent amongst the newer immigrants, primarily those from UOC-KP or UAOC backgrounds.
A few will sometimes attend the Serbian churches; but for baptisms, major feasts, etc. if they cannot travel to their own clergy they almost always come to our UGCC communities. I find this very strange as a cradle Ukrainian Orthodox Christian. We are always taught not to receive sacraments from the Ukrainian Catholic Church. Ukrainians usually go to the Serbs first, Romanians second and Greeks third if there is no Ukrainian Orthodox parish available. and the Russians would be... fourth? 
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Is there a tug-of-war in the Romanian Catholic Church between "Latinizers" and their version of "Byzantinizers"?
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Most of us are aware that in areas where there can be open hostility between Orthodox and Greek Catholics, each party will often try and emphasize their respective Orthodoxy or Catholicity via externals. Well put! There was an element of nationalism in some of the Ukrainian latinizations as well - it proved how western and progressive they were. When a seminarian from Ukraine visited our very vostochnik parish he once commented "It looks so Russian!" In his mind Latinizations affirmed a sense of being NOT Russian. In another instance a Maronite man I knew couldn't have been described well as Latinized - it would have been more accurate to say he was "omniritual" in his outlook. A visit to his home and - I am not making this up - right behind a western style statue of Mary was a Byzantine icon of Mary. He grew up in an agnostic household during the worst of the civil war and lived through some real horror stories. When he came to Christian faith he was so enamored with Our Lady that ANYTHING about her was great in his book. He had a recording he loved of the Akathist in French where in the middle of the akathist the entire rosary was recited. He loved it. As for his parish (Maronite) priest? I got a sense from him that "whatever Maronites did was Maronite". This isn't an argument for these ideals. Simply noting that our own personal concepts of liturgical correctness and spirituality (even when we are confident they are in line with directives about our churches) isn't always shared. Some patterns, practices and behaviors that we may think of as symptomatic of one sort of thinking are in fact embraced and engaged in for veru different reasons than we may suspect.
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That is an incredibly rude thing to say. As a matter of fact, it can be considered ad hominum attack on another forum member. While it is one thing to discuss our Churches relative positions, it is quite another to belittle a fellow member as he moves on his spiritual journey. An apology to Etnick is in order. Alexandr
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That is an incredibly rude thing to say. As a matter of fact, it can be considered ad hominum attack on another forum member. While it is one thing to discuss our Churches relative positions, it is quite another to belittle a fellow member as he moves on his spiritual journey. An apology to Etnick is in order. Alexandr Etnick is a big boy, he knows how to speak for himself and does so well enough. Worry about yourself.
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Actually this is not entirely true there were some instances in the Early Church of the Clergy facing the people. Where the Altar was on the western wall of the Church he continued to face East.
Stephanos I
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Fr. Stephanos bless!
I've heard of this by some scholars, but I've never seen any evidence of this claim. Other scholars who are opposed to this claim have stated that the entire congregation would turn to the East at certain points in the Divine Liturgy - I've never seen any evidence of this either (which is not to say that it didn't necessarily happen).
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Etnick is a big boy, he knows how to speak for himself and does so well enough. Worry about yourself. Fine. I suppose the self inflated opinions of certain personages are of some value to someone other than himself. However, recent convert, or no, Etnick is putting forth the teaching of the Church. And I commend him for it. By any chance, did you spend any time perusing that subject matter during your seminary career? Or did you miss that day? Alexandr
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That is an incredibly rude thing to say. As a matter of fact, it can be considered ad hominum attack on another forum member. While it is one thing to discuss our Churches relative positions, it is quite another to belittle a fellow member as he moves on his spiritual journey. An apology to Etnick is in order. Alexandr Etnick is a big boy, he knows how to speak for himself and does so well enough. Worry about yourself. All I can say is CHRISTOS VOSKRESE!
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By any chance, did you spend any time perusing that subject matter during your seminary career? Or did you miss that day?
Alexandr Oh dang now who is clever? Save the sarcasm. If we could get back to the topic where, you will notice, some are making a compelling case that the concepts advanced nowadays over what should preclude communion may not be so cut and dry and neat and tidy as suggested.
Last edited by A Simple Sinner; 05/29/08 12:36 AM.
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This thread is deteriorating into a very uncharitable tone, so I will bring it to the attention of the Administrators so that they can close it (since I am not a Moderator of this particular forum).
NO FURTHER POSTS ARE ALLOWED!
Alice, Moderator
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Agreed! Since we want to play the game in which sarcasm, rudeness, and implied insults rule are the mainstay in the posts, this thread is now closed. The administrators will be discussing this thread and conduct this evening.
In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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