www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Patriarch for Carpatho-Rusyns?

My daughter was admiring the wonderful pictures Kadylo posted of the 2008 UC Metropolia Sobor in Edmonton, Alberta.

I explained how our Byzantine Greek Catholic Churches are patriarchal in structure. The patriarch is at the head of the particular church like a father.

She asked me if His Beatitude, Patriarch Lubomyr was our patriarch. I said no. She then wondered who our Patriarch was? I said we didn't have one. She pushed further and asked why we Carpatho-Rusyn Greek Catholics don't have one? Could His Beatitude be ours too?

I don't understand why we don't have a Patriarch. How can I explain this to her?

Is the answer that we don't want to offend the Orthodox? Some how not having a Patriarch will influence the Orthodox that they should seek communion with Rome???

I don't know the answer myself.

Frankly, I think the Carpatho-Rusyn Church should Major Archbishop Husar as her Patriarch, as well as the Ukrainians. We were one jurisdiction in America until 1924. I think we should have stayed that way. IMHO.

Hmm ... what impact does a lack of a patriarch have on our church, if any? Now that the situation in the motherland has been normalized should we now be in a patriarchate?

In a manner of speaking, His Holiness, Benedict XVI, the Bishop of Rome, is "patriarch" for the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh.

It makes some difference canonically. If you read the parts about the metropolitan sui iuris churches versus the patriarchal more gets pushed to Rome as well as some other differences.

To be quite technical about it, the Patriarch of the Carpatho-Rusyns have a Patriarch, in the person of the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople - but "for the moment" (a rather long moment, but so it goes) the patriarchal functions for this group of eparchies are exercised by the Pope.

Fr. Serge

To be fair, not all of the self-governing EO churches are headed by a bishop styled a Patriarch... They are no less Eastern and no less Orthodox.

1.) In light of the dwindling demographics of the BCC, at least in the U.S.A., how likely is it that the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh might eventually become a part of the UGCC? Seems like that would be a logical action. Or is the vision that we will hold out until we can be reunited with the EP?

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2.) "To be fair, not all of the self-governing EO churches are headed by a bishop styled a Patriarch... They are no less Eastern and no less Orthodox." -- Simple Sinner

Point well taken.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies so far.

Father, Bless!

Bartholomew would be fine with me!


blessings,

Lance

A Byzantine Christian in a Postmodern World [byzantinechristian.blogspot.com]

Amen.

Yes, His All-Holiness seems to have a fondness for the Carpatho-Rusyns!

The Patriarchate is the manifestation of the full maturity of a Church sui iuris hierarchically. Without it, there cannot be a fully synodal form of governance, since the metropolitan or eparchial churches are directly dependent on Rome for major canonical decisions. Certainly it is well accepted amongst Eastern Christians as a traditional form of governance.

There is much more than the beautiful patriarchal tradition, however. In the case of the UGCC it definitely broadens the resources available for the life and growth of the Church; the Patriarchal Catechetical and other commissions have input and representatives from Australia to Ukraine - practically one end of the globe to another. This also allows a greater sharing of ideas, input, collaboration, seminary and other formation resources within the particular Church.

To comment on Deacon John's previous statements, which I do not necessarily disagree with, to claim that the Pope is the particular Patriarch of an Eastern Church would seem to be admitting to uniatism to a substantial degree, as well as potentially reducing the identity of what should be a particular church as a mere "rite" of Rome.

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The limited size of the various Carpatho-Rusyn eparchies and limited resources seem to suggest that a place in the UGCC would be a viable option.

You just answered your own question,John.I don't know how old your daughter is,but you might explain to her that there is no official country called "Carpatho-Rusyn Republic"etc.It would seem that this would be a requirment for a Patriarchate.People don't even agree as to who or what a Rusyn is,nor on an official language,Prof.Magocsi's efforts notwithstanding.(The closest thing to a commonly recognised Rusyn tongue is the Rusnak language of Serbian Voivodina,which is really an Eastern Slovak language written with cyrillic letters and containing some Magyar and other loan words).Many National Orthodox Churches are not Patriarchates,for example,Romania only got a Patriarch in the 1920's.An interesting aside,there briefly was a POLISH Orthodox Patriarch during WW II.Metropolitan Dionysius of the Polish Orthodox Church blessed the establishment of a Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the areas of Ukraine which came under the Third Reich.Sometime around 1943-44,the bishops voted to give Metropolitan Dionysius the title "Patriarch".It seemes a bit silly,since even with the larger Orthodox population of pre-war Poland ,Orthodoxy would never have been the predominate religion as in Romania.I don't think Constantinople ever did nor would have confirmed the title,I don't know that it was ever used in church, and soon enough the war ended,and Metropolitan Dionysius ended up in exile in England,where he reposed in 1965.