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Camada is a lovely country - I lived there for two decades, have lots of friends there, and am still quite fond of it.
... The Ukrainians, at least, would see such a proposal as part of an effort to deracinate them. They might be right.
Fr. Serge I've heard of Canada and even Camden, but where is Camada? I had no idea Ukrainians could trace their roots to Racine, WI. 
Last edited by Deacon John Montalvo; 05/31/08 08:16 PM.
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However, while the Greek Melkites in America belong to the Greek Melkite Patriarchate of Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and all the East, they are deemed to be outside the proper patriarchal territory. But aren't all of the patriarchs outside the pentarchy at least nominaly attached to one of the pentarchs? If you mixed byzantine and melchite, which would it be? hawk
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... perhaps the USA and Mexico should join Canada.  Kadylo Canada has Quebec, the First Nations, an absentee Monarch, five or so political parties ... ... don't know if we in the United States have enough glue to join them. Maybe if we used Epoxies instead of Eparchies?
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Canada has Quebec, the First Nations, an absentee Monarch, five or so political parties ...
... don't know if we in the United States have enough glue to join them. Hey, don't forget that Canada has the largest diaspora of Ukrainians in the world! 1.2 million. And many Ukrainian-Canadian families have been here for over 100 years and are still going strong in Ukrainian churches in Canada.
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OK, you win. Hey, don't forget that Canada has the largest diaspora of Ukrainians in the world! 1.2 million.
And many Ukrainian-Canadian families have been here for over 100 years and are still going strong in Ukrainian churches in Canada. You may check off my vote for the Archepoxy of Edmonton, Ellesmere, Etobicoke and all Eastern Catholics.  Amen!
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OK, you win. Hey, don't forget that Canada has the largest diaspora of Ukrainians in the world! 1.2 million.
And many Ukrainian-Canadian families have been here for over 100 years and are still going strong in Ukrainian churches in Canada. You may check off my vote for the Archepoxy of Edmonton, Ellesmere, Etobicoke and all Eastern Catholics. Amen! Shlomo John, Do not forget that not all Eastern Catholics are Byzantine. I do agree that we in the Americas should have unified jurisdictions based on the Holy Traditions that they hold. Therefore all Byzantines should be unified, all us that share the Antiochene-Edessan Tradition and so on. Poosh BaShlomo, Yuhannon
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Perhaps the Major Archbishop of Camada could have the title of "His Whiteness the Tamada".
Fr. Serge
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However, while the Greek Melkites in America belong to the Greek Melkite Patriarchate of Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and all the East, they are deemed to be outside the proper patriarchal territory. But aren't all of the patriarchs outside the pentarchy at least nominaly attached to one of the pentarchs? If you mixed byzantine and melchite, which would it be? hawk Benedicite! I'm not quite sure I understand. All Eastern Catholic patriarchs are equal with regard to the patriarchal dignity, except for purely honorary precedence ( CCEO can. 59 � 1).
Last edited by Latin Catholic; 06/01/08 07:35 AM.
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Camada is a lovely country - I lived there for two decades, have lots of friends there, and am still quite fond of it. But the Canadian ethos is different from that of the USA.
Mexico? I've never been there, so I could be off base - but I would see it as an eventual part of a structure for at least Spanish-speaking Latin America.
An American Patriarchate? Both the Ukrainians and the Melkites wish to remain part of their respective patriarchal Churches, and indeed to strengthen the bonds with those Churches. The Ukrainians, at least, would see such a proposal as part of an effort to deracinate them. They might be right.
Fr. Serge Benedicite! I can see that the Ukrainians wish to retain and strengthen their bonds with the mother Church in Ukraine. But would it not at least in theory be better to have sui iuris patriarchal or major archiepiscopal Byzantine Catholic Churches in the United States and Canada with full jurisdiction over their proper territories, including the right to erect eparchies and elect Bishops? And would not these daughter Churches still be able to cherish and maintain their spiritual bonds with their mother Churches in Eastern Europe and the Near East?
Last edited by Latin Catholic; 06/01/08 07:48 AM.
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Latin Catholic One wee fly in the ointment is that Ukrainian Catholics are in other countries as well as North America. I can't honestly see them agreeing to your suggestion of .... sui iuris patriarchal or major archiepiscopal Byzantine Catholic Churches in the United States and Canada with full jurisdiction over their proper territories, including the right to erect eparchies and elect Bishops? ....
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Latin Catholic One wee fly in the ointment is that Ukrainian Catholics are in other countries as well as North America. I can't honestly see them agreeing to your suggestion of .... sui iuris patriarchal or major archiepiscopal Byzantine Catholic Churches in the United States and Canada with full jurisdiction over their proper territories, including the right to erect eparchies and elect Bishops? .... Benedicite! No doubt you're quite right about this for the foreseeable future. My concern is the multiplication of jurisdictions of the same liturgical tradition in one place, and the likely impact of this fragmentation on the future of the Eastern Catholic Churches outside their historical areas. My Latin home parish consists of Vietnamese, Poles, Tamils, Filipinos, Chileans, Norwegians and about 90 other nationalities from every continent, yet we all function as one parish within one diocese, despite considerable differences in language and tradition. Why shouldn't Greek Melkites, Ukrainians, Ruthenians, Romanians, and Slovaks at least consider doing the same? After all they do share the same Byzantine Christian tradition, don't they? On a practical note, though, maybe it is more important to foster various forms of cooperation than to stress organizational unity at this stage?
Last edited by Latin Catholic; 06/01/08 05:13 PM.
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The underlying problem, the Slavophiles.
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Is it really so horrid to suggest that the Church normally lives in a cultural matrix?
Fr. Serge
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Benedicite!
Certainly not, Father Serge! I don't think there has ever been such a thing as a Church separate from a cultural and historical context. But then again that context is never completely static, is it?
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