www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Have We Received the Schism?

This is one of my big concerns as well, actually. The Eucharist is a Sacrament of Communion, but it is often used precisely as a Sacrament of Schism.

Just to be clear, I'm all for guarding the chalice, and I actually think the general Catholic practice is too open to abuse in that there is often not a strong emphasis placed on being "right with God and the Church" prior to receiving, at least in many places in the U.S. where my experience lies. I've known Protestants, and even non-believers, who slip into line and receive, even while complaining about the Catholic Church on the way up!

When a person has Confessed, and is not standing in open defiance of the Church (and this includes Orthodox who remain loyal Orthodox, but do not harbor deep contradictory views of the Catholic Communion), I feel that it is inappropriate for us to deny them Communion.

Any Orthodox who approaches the Eucharist in a Catholic church can be presumed to not harbor any animosity towards Catholic beliefs, and being true, Sacramental members of Christ they should be welcomed. Yes, they should be mindful of their own Canons, but I'm also a believer in the notion that sometimes Canons can interfere with the proper Life of Grace. There is something artificial and even Pharisiacal in my eyes with denying a brother or sister in Christ the Sacraments due to the letter of a human law. To me it seems like an abuse of Christ to use His Most Holy Eucharist in such a way.

If it were just any random person, I'd say guard the chalice, but this is a true Bishop who approached of his own free will to receive the very same Body and Blood that he himself calls down to the altar every week. From a theological perspective, it would be very small minded and twisted to deny him the very Sacraments his own hands bring to people every day.

That being said, the Romanian Church will have to deal with his actions as it sees fit. I hope and pray that his actions serve to open some minds a bit, but I don't expect it too soon.

Peace and God bless!

Amen!

I sincerely believe that, after all, the Orthodoxy, in her entire living, is not too known to the Western people.

I saw many opinions at Byzcath. After this event, the efforts of Father John Paul II were broken and a whole bridge was wiped. I think that those from West simply do not understand. When Father John Paul II came to here, he respected the Orthodox Church. There were many voices, invitations, urges for various actions, but he chose to respect the Orthodox Church, even if he was free to act as he wanted, according to the RCC canons. Inside the freedom of his own canons, he chose to behave with respect, with patience. He came to Bucharest, but he knew that the Orthodox Church is one and all is more complex. He was at Bucharest, but he knew he is regarded from Athens, Karyes, Moscow etc.

Well...God have mercy! Even if I asked more times, I saw no reply. I want to know. The Creed was issued in the 4th century, in Ecumenical Synods. Ecumenical, i.e. all the brothers together. Filioque was added to the Creed outside a Ecumenical Creed. Then? It had to be introduced only in a Ecumenical Synod. I do not understand.

Then, about that Bishop.

In an interview soon after that event, he said so:




What about truth?

m+

Dear Marian,

I believe that there have been many long threads through the years on the Filioque, and people may be hesitant to get into it all over again...Maybe if you do a 'search', you will find them...

As I remember it, the Filioque became a popular devotion in order to combat heresy--Arianism-- in Spain, and also, later because of a translational problem...

I don't know exatly, and I am open to correction.

I hope this helps...

In Christ,
Alice

Thank you, sister. Well...I forgot of that search function, I ask forgiveness. I will research on this matter.

Yesterday I was in Rome, the same coldish world. Sorry, not a world for me.

Tomorrow is big feast. May God enlighten our souls. Amin.

m+

Some of my thoughts on this whole discussion:

Generations of anger and hurt carry over in man, they are handed down through our human nature. That is what this whole crux of the discussion is.

This battle is being fought in Europe. However, here in the states the same battles are fought in many ways. Anger has to heal, but it can only be healed when we desire to allow God to enter into the equation and not into what our 'box' of ideas are.

In Romania, as Marian said before, decades ago bishops took a huge part of his Church into Communion with Rome - they are still angry. Here in the US, many of our people went to the Orthodox, when Rome made some requirments that were against our traditions - they are still angry. Sadly, we have carried this repressive anger from one generation to the other.

Who is right? The Holy Spirit is. Man likes to get in the way. What was the Holy Spirit doing when he allowed the Romanian Bishop to receive Christ from the hands of a Roman Bishop - only the Holy Spirit knows. But, I promise something is being done in the Heavens that we do not comprehend or understand. Scripture clearly states that God's ways are not our ways.

God is going to bring unity into the Body of Christ whether we, as 'humans,' like it or not. Are we going to be part of his healing work, or continue to tear the Body apart? Scripture says 'we will be one.' God can do it, with or without us, but it would be easier to say Lord, 'according to your will and not ours.'
Jesus Prayed:
John 17:
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"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
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so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
22
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,
23
I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.
24
Father, they are your gift to me. I wish that where I am 7 they also may be with me, that they may see my glory that you gave me, because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
25
Righteous Father, the world also does not know you, but I know you, and they know that you sent me.
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I made known to them your name and I will make it known, 8 that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in them."

O Lord, O Lord, who upholdest all things in the undefiled hollow of thy hand, who showest long-suffering upon us all and repentest thee at our wickedness: Remember thy compassions and thy mercy. Visit us with goodness, and grant that, through the remainder of the present day, by thy grace, we may avoid the diverse subtle snares of the evil one and preserve our lives unassailed, through the grace of thine all-holy Spirit. Through the mercy and love toward mankind of thine only-begotten Son, with whom thou art blessed, together with thine all-holy and good and life-giving Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
http://www.antiochian.org/1135443906

My love to all!
Pani Rose

Thank you for the beautiful words in your post, Pani Rose...

In the Lord and Saviourof us all, Jesus Christ,
Alice