The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
ElijahHarvest, Nickel78, Trebnyk1947, John Francis R, Keinn
6,150 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
2 members (Hutsul, 1 invisible), 352 guests, and 90 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,506
Posts417,454
Members6,150
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2008/06/statutes-of-neocatechumenal-way.html

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/06/lossrom-neo-cat-stats-approved-by-holy-see/

(The Rorate Caeli blog has many informative articles about the NCW)

I would like to have your comments.

I'll start with my own: this caught me by surprise, given the NCW's very innovative liturgy (receiving communion in the hand while sitting down around the altar, lots of dancing, etc.) and its very controversial catechism. This leaves me wondering whether the future of Catholicism does in fact lie in the "New Movements" and in the Charismatic movement.

Sandro Magister has described these innovations as follows [chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it] :

And in fact, among the new movements that have arisen in the Catholic Church, the Neocatechumenal Way is the one that goes the farthest in introducing innovations to the celebration of the Mass.

In the Neocatechumenal Way, communion is taken while seated around a large square table, with a large loaf of bread that is divided among the participants and wine that is passes from hand to hand and is taken in large swallows.

But communion is not the only area in which there is a departure from the traditional liturgy. There are significant innovations in other parts of the Mass.

For example, the readings from the liturgy of the Word are commented upon by the catechists of the group, who make lengthy �admonitions� followed by �resonances� from many of those present. The priest�s homily is hardly distinguished, or not distinguished at all, from the rest of the comments.

The times and places for the Mass are also unusual.

The Neocatechumenals do not celebrate their Masses on Sunday, but on Saturday evening, in small groups and separate from the parish communities to which they belong.

Each Neocatechumenal group corresponds to a different stage of the Way, so each group of 20-30 persons has its own Mass. If there are ten groups of Neocatechumenals in a parish, there will be ten different Masses on Saturday evening, in ten separate locations.


Here are also some videos:

Videos of RECENT NeoCatechumenal Masses:

Easter Vigil from Brazil:

(dancing around the altar)

Pentecost Vigil from the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception, Batangas:



Paschal Vigil Dance from Spain



Eastern � Rite Neocatechumenal Mass



Dance at the End of Mass:








Pope Benedict had, through Cardinal Arinze, initially demanded that the NCW change its liturgical practices to conform to the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. However, the changes never came, and the Pope has apparently stopped insisting.


Interestingly, this leaves the Moscow Patriarchate as the sole major spiritual center to have explicitly rebuffed the Neo-Catechumenal Way (in 2006).

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 648
D
Orthodox domilsean
Member
Orthodox domilsean
Member
D Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 648
Many innovations, such as this Neo-Catechumenal Way, Taize, and even the "Charismatic" movement all make me a bit uneasy. I don't care if they've duped Rome or not.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 424
Member
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 424
Is the Catholic church so desperate to approve this????!!!!!

And let me get this straight--Rome will approve this, but not appeal to our wishes that the RDL be rescinded?

...and here I thought Ratzinger was doing so well.


Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
Orthodox Christian
Member
Orthodox Christian
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
This is also an Eastern Catholic video clip of the Newcatechumenate Way.



Since it seems to appeal to the emotions, I can see how it would be popular. Yet, it can a danger in that people would always want some new innovation and that might lead to heresy.

With ears itching ...

However, the Byzantine Divine Liturgy also uses all the senses, so why do they have to tamper with something that is not broken and has withstood the test of time?

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
So let me get this straight, dancing at the roman liturgy is wrong while it is ok with the coptic liturgy?
Stephanos I

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 424
Member
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 424
I can't resist...this seems like a "Catholic Hippie" movement meant to convert people that are on the edge of Protestantism and Catholicism.

Among other issues, suddenly the Orthodox Church is looking mighty fine.


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 218
P
Member
Member
P Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 218
Now I remember why I became Orthodox.

Things are getting bad ahead of time.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
Here is some more info:

http://www.cathud.com/LINKS/pages_MR/neocatechumenate.htm

I am really upset by this. frown

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
Orthodox Christian
Member
Orthodox Christian
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
Thanks for the link ... yes, it is scary.

http://www.cathud.com/LINKS/pages_MR/neocatechumenate.htm

Quote
The Neocatechumenate Way has been a sign of contention and a source of division within the Catholic Church for many years. Some claim the Way is a blessing of the Spirit, but many consider it to be dangerous in doctrine and methodology; and compare it to a sect, calling it "a church within the Church".

Quote
Kiko and Carmen write in their guide, "Man is not saved by good works(...), Jesus Christ did not come to give us a model of life, an example (...). The Holy Spirit doesn't lead us to perfection, to good works (...), Christianism doesn't require anything from us (...). God forgives freely the sins of those who believe that Jesus is the Savior." A more clear statements of Lutheran doctrine, as opposed to Catholic doctrine, it would be difficult to find.


Last edited by Elizabeth Maria; 06/12/08 06:55 PM.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 442
C
Member
Member
C Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 442
Why has Rome signed off on this?

Converted Viking

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
The translation of the decree definitively approving the NCW is out:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/06/lossrom-neo-cat-stats-approved-by-holy-see/#comments

The statutes of the Neocatechumenate approved by the Pontifical Council for the Laity.

Rome: 12. The definitive decree of approval of of the statutes of the Neocatechumenal way have been given to the leaders of the movement on th e morning of June 13 in the office of the Pontifical Council for the Laity.

�The definitive approbal of the statutes�reads a communique sent out by the Pontifical Council�constitutes, without doubt, an important step in the life of this ecclesial reality, which rose in Spain in 1964. This act has required various consultations at diverse levels. During the period of approval �ad experimentum� of the statutes, the Pontifical Council has had the opportunity to ascertain the numerous fruits which the Neocatechumenal way brings to the Church in view of the new evangelization, through a catechetical-liturgical praxis welcomed and valued in its nearly 20 years of life. Therefore, subsequent to an attentive review of the text of the statutes, and the insertion of some modifications which were determined to be necessary, the Pontifical Council for the Laity has arrived at the definitive approval of the statutes.

In an audience given to the members of the Neocatechumenal way on June 12, the Pope said: �Your apostolic action intends to situate itself in the heart of the Church, in complete harmony with her directives and in communion with the particular Churches in which you walk and operate, valuing fully the richness of the charisms that the Lord called forth through the founders of the Way.�

Most recently, last May 17, during a study seminar for Bishops organized by the Pontifical Council for the Laity, the Pope affirmed that, �The ecclesial movements and the new communities are one of the most important novelties [new things] called forth by the Holy Spirit in the Church for the actualization of the Second Vatican Council,� and recalled how the Servants of God Paul VI and John Paul II �knew how to welcome and discern, encourage and promote the unforseen irruption of the new lay realities which, in various and surprising forms, give again vitality, faith and hope to the whole Church.�

In light of this, �It is hoped�concludes the communique of the Pontifical Council for the Laity�that the statutes of the Neocatechumenal way, approved now in a definitive form, can be a valid instrument of service for this ecclesial reality, so that it might continue to contribute to the good of all the Church.�


I've highlighted the three most surprising (for me) passages.

The first highlighted passage clearly and explicitly approves of the NCW liturgy and catechism. This is significant because it is these two elements that have been most controversial among the innovations of the NCW.

The second passage declares that the NCW is "in complete harmony" with the Church

The third is precisely what makes me uneasy about NCW and the various movements that have sprung up in the Catholic Church: this seeming emphasis on constant innovation in the Church, innovation that is attributed to the Holy Spirit (no less!) and feeding into the concept of "Second Pentecost" or "New Pentecost" that has been so popular in the Church since the 1970's. One wonders if a New Pentecost also means a New Church?

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
I hope Vladyka Hilarion of Vienna says something! As of late, he's been saying what Catholic prelates should be saying...

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 282
T
Tim Offline
Greco-Kat
Member
Greco-Kat
Member
T Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 282
I am continuously puzzled at the numbers of contributors to these fora who seem to think that fidelity to tradition rests on the principle that "nothing shall ever be done for the first time."

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6
Just another example of liturgical abuse. Out of one side of it's mouth Rome states that it wants reunion with the Orthodox, and out of the other side, it mocks God by condoning muchunka like this. Thanks, but no thanks. If reunion means accepting things like this, I am perfectly content to maintain the status quo.

Alexandr

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
Originally Posted by Tim
I am continuously puzzled at the numbers of contributors to these fora who seem to think that fidelity to tradition rests on the principle that "nothing shall ever be done for the first time."

There is a difference between doing something for the first time and implementing an innovation that runs against the grain of immemorial traditions.

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0