www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Ecclesia Dei mandates the Gregorian Latin Mass in all parishes.

http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2008/06/latin-mass-not-some-parishes-all.html

Latin Mass: Not Some Parishes - All Parishes!!

In a stunning press conference given in England during his visit to that country, Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos President of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, said that, according to The Telegraph, all seminaries must teach priests to say the Mass according to the Extraordinary Form. Additionally, he said that this Mass will return to every parish.

[Telegraph]The traditional Latin Mass � effectively banned by Rome for 40 years � is to be reintroduced into every Roman Catholic parish in England and Wales, the senior Vatican cardinal in charge of Latin liturgy said at a press conference in London today.

In addition, all English seminaries must teach trainee priests how to say the old Mass so that they can celebrate it in all parishes. Catholic congregations throughout the world will receive special instruction on how to appreciate the old services, formerly known as the Tridentine Rite.
...
Pope Benedict now clearly intendeds to go much further in promoting the ancient liturgy. Asked whether the Latin Mass would be celebrated in many ordinary parishes in future, Cardinal Castrillon said: "Not many parishes � all parishes. The Holy Father is offering this not only for the few groups who demand it, but so that everybody knows this way of celebrating the Eucharist."

There have been hints of this in some of the responses to questions coming out of the PCED, but this is the most sweeping public statement to date on the re-introduction of the Traditional Mass. They also seem to be giving the Mass a name change.

Pope Benedict will reintroduce the old rite � which the Cardinal said should be known as the "Gregorian Rite" - even where the congregation has not asked for it. "People don't know about it, and therefore they don't ask for it," he explained. The revised Mass, adopted in 1970 after the Second Vatican Council, had given rise to "many, many, many abuses," added the Cardinal.

...

See the URL above for the complete story.

On April 1, someone played a joke saying that the Novus Ordo was banned ... but it seems like that joke may not be a joke after all, but is probably a foretaste of things to come.

Maybe the Eastern Catholics will be allowed to use the Ancient Divine Liturgy after all.

Let us pray.

Please take this article with a large grain of salt.

I suggest that you read the combox debates on this matter at:

http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2008/06/requirement-for-seminary-trianing-in.html

As Fr. Anthony Symondson SJ, a very orthodox Jesuit (one of the Farmstreet Jesuits) and a frequent commentator at NLM says:

I have to take this report with a large pinch of salt. Damian Thompson's enthusiasm for the Extraordinary Form is well-known in the United Kingdom, but it would be practically impossible to mandatorily introduce it into every parish in England and Wales, and Scotland and Ireland for that. The practicalities are as follows: many priests do not read Latin; among those that do many have no desire to celebrate the Extraordinary Form, even though some are willing to celebrate the Ordinary Form in Latin. Latinists are now a small minority among British priests at large.

Some English and Welsh bishops have been looking for priests capable of celebrating the Extraordinary Form and are finding it difficult to find them. I am not convinced there is an implacable opposition in the Bishops' Conference but a real inability to enforce Summorum Pontificum.

With a shortage of priests already overburdened by having to say multiple Masses on Sundays, a compulsory Mass in the Ordinary Form would be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Finally, an admirable young FSSP priest I met recently who worked for a long time in England became demoralized by the tiny attendances at Masses he celebrated all over the country, often involving long and exhausting journeys. He said that, in comparison with France, the demand was small and attendance discouraging. In fact, he said that there really was no demand.

It will take a long time for the Extraordinary Form to find a regular place in British Catholic worship and the solution lies in the seminaries. But what about numbers? The great Archdiocese of Birmingham, for instance, has only one new seminarian this year, and he is an older man who is being sent to study at the Beda in Rome. Similar shortages are being replicated all over the country.

These are the practicalities that no amount of journalistic rhetoric can overlook.
Anthony Symondson SJ | 06.14.08 | #

Another commentator wrote:

Damien Thompson is well known for being a hysterical reactionary with a history of exaggeration and selective reporting - perhaps that why his newspaper/blog pieces are often very interesting but bear little resemblence to reality. This was one reason that the Bishops of E&W complained to his employer (Daily Telegraph) about his behaviour and conduct.

Take what he says with a pinch of salt, he'a always trying to pick a fight. Reading what he writes, one can already tell that he fails to understand or consider any nuances in what the cardinal says.

Cardinal: the use of the Gregorian Rite is open to all parishes (who wish it).
Damian's interpretation: The old rite will be imposed upon all parishes asap.
Unerlying agenda: constantly implying that the Bishops of E&W are not in accord with the Pope & Rome and trying to undermine their position.

My bet is that when all the facts come out, Damian will be shown again for making a 'storm in a tea-cup'.
big benny | 06.14.08 | #

While Damian Thompson engages in a bit of journalistic exaggeration, the NCW is approved and the USCCB Bishops stall approving the new, more literal translation of the Novus Ordo. That speaks of the real state of things.

Byzantine Catholics currently are "allowed to use the Ancient Divine Liturgy" - we usually do it on Sundays around 10am.

Ok, lets be clear, we all know that no one really uses the "Ancient Divine Liturgy." We use a much modified text with a lot of late additions. And I don't think quibbles about translation, etc warrant the comment that Eastern Catholics need some sort of permission to "use the Ancient Divine Liturgy." Just like the Orthodox, our hierarchs are struggling to do the best they can to provide liturgy in vernacular (you know, the ancient practice of the Apostles).

Felix

My personal experience of what has happened in a city that has introduced the Latin Mass .

Glasgow Archdiocese has made provision for a Latin Mass to be celebrated every week on Sundays at 4pm in one of the City Churches. It is celebrated by one of 4 Priests who serve in rotation . It took almost 6 months for this to be organised - servers had to be trained , the Schola had to work together , booklets had to be made and printed .

It has been 'running 'now for well over a year and attendance is still tiny - about 40 each week .

When they were ready to go ' live ' flyers were sent to all RC Parishes in the City and the Parish Priests were asked to 'advertise' this.

You may thinks that a regular congregation of 40 [ or less ] is quite good - Glasgow is the second City in Scotland - but this regular congregation is made up of the relatives of the 4 young priests.[ 5 originally expressed interest but only 4 now serve ]

Where did Glasgow get these priests , willing and able to Serve in Latin ? - they are all ex-Seminarians from Rome .

IF Elizabeth Maria's article is correct then it will be some many years before one priest in every parish in England and Wales will be able to serve in Latin.

I would like to point out that the Glasgow Latin Mass is the Latin Novus Ordo rather than the TLM. Without in any way denying the licitness of the Novus Ordo, the fact is that most Catholics who support Latin in the liturgy seem to prefer the TLM over the Latin Novus Ordo. In fact, since Summorum Pontificum went into effect, many regular Latin Novus Ordo masses have been replaced with the TLM.

I would agree with asianpilgrim. Damian Thompson's a bit of a sensationalist.

Anyway, I think mandatory (re)introduction of the Traditional Mass (and Sacraments!) into every parish would be disastrous at this stage, so many parishes and priests being ill-equipped monetarily, physically, mentally...spiritually...

Things of this magnitude take time, and, we have to reintroduce tradition as carefully as its opponents 40-50 years ago were quick in trying to suffocate it.

Alexis

Total agreement

BUT if they could only find 4 or 5 Priests who were interested in using Latin out of all the priests in the Glasgow Archdiocese , and these priests knew Latin and could serve the NO Mass , where are you going to find one priest in each parish who can devote the necessary time to
1) learn Latin
2) learn the Rubrics
3) teach servers
4) learn /teach the music
and then
5) persuade joe public that this is the way to go

If you even start with the students entering Seminary this year it will be 6 years before they are ordained.

BTW: Anhelyna, that wasn't my article. Nothing in that OP originated from me. It was merely a cut and paste from the blog with the url provided as a reference.

However, since you live in the UK, perhaps you can answer a question:

Is the Telegraph considered to be a rag sheet or is it a reputable source of news?

Nevertheless, more than 60 years of liturgical abuse has certainly caused significant damage to the faith of more than three generations. During my four years of Catholic education at Dominican University and Holy Names University in the late 1960s, several Dominican and Jesuit priests who were liturgical scholars told me that this liturgical experimentation began near the end of World War II and immediately thereafter. That is why Pope Pius XII wrote two encyclicals denouncing liturgical abuse in an attempt to nip it in the bud: Mediator Dei and Mystici Corporis. Yet at the same time, a careful reading of those two encyclicals shows that the establishment of the Diocesan Liturgical Commissions by that same pope ultimately prepared the way for Vatican II. In fact, my professors told me that Pope Pius XII was preparing the groundwork for Vatican II before he died and that Vatican II was therefore not a surprise at all, but fully expected.

In the late Pope's words:

"But ancient usage must not be esteemed more suitable and proper, either in its own right or in its significance for later times and new situations, on the simple ground that it carries the savor and aroma of antiquity."

Pray for my brothers and sisters who have all left Catholicism and have become protestants. Their faith was indeed shattered because nothing was held sacred during the liturgical abuse they experienced in the early to late 1960s. Four generations have been lost: my mom, my brothers and sisters, their children, and their grandchildren.

Anhelyna,

It may very well be that many a priest celebrates the Traditional Mass in private in the (arch?)diocese. So many bishops right now are doing their darndest to try to stifle the growth of the TLM, and that, perhaps, is a possible explanation for there not being any in the Glasgow area.

Also, the way that Summorum Pontificum has been construed thus far, by most bishops, is that the TLM can't be implemented without people asking for it; and as Cardinal Castrillon points out, many people don't ask for it because they don't even know about it! But according to His Eminence's latest comments, it seems that the TLM can apparently be implemented without the people's requests for it, and he seems to encourage this. What we really need is for the clarifying letter on S.P. to be published; they said it was going to be months ago, and it still isn't out. This will definitively settle many of the above- and below-mentioned restrictions antithetical to the Motu Proprio.

Also, many bishops are imposing artificial restrictions like saying there has to be a minimum of 30 people who request it, and that they have to be of the same parish, had to exist prior to the Motu Proprio (a contorted meaning of what they say is a "stable group"), etc. In short, there are a myriad of reasons why there isn't a greater presence or following of the TLM in Glasgow, but rest assured: the traditional movement of the Roman Rite continues to gain enormous ground almost daily, and as biology runs its course, more and more of the anti-TLM crowd (who are generally over 60), are fading away. And they are replaced by newer, more traditional-minded priests (generally).

Still a long way to go, though. From what I hear, the younger priests from many Latin American and even some Asian countries, while orthodox, don't care too much about traditional liturgy and are sometimes rather opposed to it. Nevertheless, the New Liturgical Movement forges ahead, with the example of our Supreme Pontiff, Benedict XVI.

Alexis

If you'll notice, large movements for the TLM exist mainly in those countries which had the Liturgical Movement prior to Vatican II: France, Germany, UK, USA, Switzerland, Austria, some parts of Canada and to a certain extent, Italy.

The sole exception is Brazil, where the existence of the TLM-only Apostolic Administration in Campos is the legacy of the late Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer, the chief collaborator of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. It is quite telling that when Campos became the last diocese in the whole world to adopt the Novus Ordo -- in 1982 -- the vast majority of the faithful and majority of the priests followed. Only a few priests and faithful followed Msgr. Castro Mayer in retaining the TLM, and even today, the Apostolic Administration only has a small fraction of the Catholic population of Campos, the vast majority preferring the Novus Ordo.

What tiny TLM movements exist today in the rest of Latin America are due to the SSPX (which has actually had very little success there) and -- in the case of Mexico -- the sedevacantists. In Francophone Africa there are tiny groups who owe their existence to the SSPX and the ICRSP (the founders of both societies spent time in Africa and had ties with the Churches there), and in Nigeria there is one all-TLM parish due to the presence of an FSSP priest from Nigeria.

In Latin America, in the Philippines, in Africa and in Asia, the liturgical movement never really took root before Vatican II. Hence, there never was any history of the faithful actually being aware of the importance of the liturgy -- in fact, popular piety was more focused on extra-liturgical devotions and spirituality. Hence the paradox, that in Latin America and the Philippines, traditional Marian and Eucharistic piety have survived substantially intact, but the liturgy has not.

Personally, I feel downcast when I read a lot of the online stuff about the liturgical restoration now being undertaken in the Catholic Church. A lot of online commentators write as if USA, Canada and Western Europe are the whole Catholic Church, forgetting that the TLM movement as a whole has bypassed Latin America, Philippines and Asia, where a vast majority of Catholics live.

Meanwhile, the NCW is growing in the Global South by leaps and bounds....

Updated news from the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2129070/Latin-mass-to-return-to-England-and-Wales.html


It is sad how many Catholic bishops try to force revised liturgies on people. What is their true agenda? Is Dante correct when he wrote that the roads in Hell are paved with the heads of priests and that the lampposts are the bishops?

Lord have mercy for we perish.

My question is, and it might well be provocative, what kind of faith did they have in the first place?
Stephanos I

We were all devout Catholics who attended Mass weekly and even during the week whenever possible. We came from a family lineage that produced devout priests and nuns.

My mom was a member of the Altar Society and my dad was in the Knights of Columbus. We all sang in the choir. I was a member of the Third Order of Dominicans.

My dad did return to the Catholic Faith before he died, and when he lay dying, he sang Catholic Communion hymns. He died a saint, of that I am sure. However, my mom, my three brothers, and my sister would not let him have a Catholic funeral nor see the priest. They remain very anti-Catholic and anti-Orthodox to this day.

Dear Elizabeth Maria,

I just don't understand how anyone, and please do not take offense at this, can control the other to the extent of disallowing the person, even in their death, to have the last rites and religious funeral of their choice. It boggles my mind.

Again, please forgive me for saying this about your family and I intend no offense to you...it is just so sad that even within Christianity, we can harbor such anomosity, judgement, and suspicion towards one another.

In Christ,
Alice