www.byzcath.org

Just a question for everyone: Isn't this move on the part of the Ukranian Churches one that puts national identity above theological truth? I know that there is a name for this but I can't remember what it is. Fidelity to doctrine should trump nationalism I think.

Joe

The word could be ethno-phyletism.

Yes and speaking as a member of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada, I would never support this concept of "double unity", nor do I know of anyone within my church who would. Orthodox Christians may receive the Holy Eucharist in my church but not Ukrainian Catholics. We Orthodox are united in faith.

I am cradle Orthodox and my family has been in Canada for many generations and my family was Orthodox in Ukraine.

This "double unity" may be the pipe dream of Archbishop Lubomyr Husar of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, but Ukrainian Orhodox do not and will never support it. Nor will any other Orthodox Church.

I wouldn't characterize all Ukrainian Orthodox that way. Many are ex-UGCC, and are more latinized than I am...

If you expect the Orthodox to ever have a universal synod or council, forget it! They cannot even agree among themselves.
Stephanos I

Father Stephanos, it is quite possible that we will not see any universal council of the Orthodox Church. The main reason, I think, is because we no longer have a byzantine empire and an Emperor who can call such a council. This is a weak spot in our ecclesiology. We Orthodox need to move forward with an ecclesiology that is not so dependent on the structure of the byzantine empire. I think that this will take an exercise in humility and self sacrifice on the part of both the Patriarch of Moscow and the Patriarch of Constantinople. I also think that this is where the Pope of Rome could play a legitimate role in fostering Church unity. If the Pope were to return to Orthodoxy and his place as first among equals, he could serve the Church in moderating the disputes between the other patriarchs and calling a universal Council as needed. But this would require a full restoration of communion between Rome and the Orthodox Church and any proposal for double communion would only complicate things and create more strife between the patriarchs.

Joe

The problem is this: if the Pope is not Infallible (let's use this term as "the last stop in an unresolved dispute among Bishops" or "the Buck Stops Here" as opposed to I can tell you what to do...) then all Bishop's are infallible - thus, they could declare things contradictory are "infallible".

Yes, the case of Estonia is a good example where the Pope would be a good third party

Really, because I haven't met them yet. I am also cradle Ukrainian Orthodox and my family is from Volynia(post WW2)
The Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada has no interest in "double unity" with Ukrainian Catholics.
All our hierarchy has its roots in cradle Orthodoxy either in Bukovyna (Arch. Yrij, Metr. Ivan and the late Metr. Wasyly. Both Archb. Yurij and Metr. Ivan were born in Canada. The rest of our past hierarchy had their roots in Volynia and knew first hand the oppression by Polish Roman Catholics in the inter-war period.
It is true that in 1918 when our church was founded the maroity of the founders were former Ukrainian Catholics but in the inter-war period with serious immigration from Bukovynia and especially from Volynia that changed. The post-World War2 immigration brought more cradle Ukrainian Orthodox.
We had a quartely annual meeting at church on Sunday to elect delegates to our extraordinary Sobor which will celebrate the 90 anniversary of the founding of our church.
Trust me no one was talking about "double unity" with the Ukrainian Catholics.
I do know that many of Ukrainian Orthodox resent Ukrainian Catholics putting words in our mouth. We are Orthodox by birth and we choose to remain Orthodox.

Agreed about the dual unity thing - that was not really the intent of my post. My point is they have many latinizations (latin traditions that have remained), not that they want to join communion with Rome again. I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

Bless me Father Anthony:

Dear Father, I am writing because I have been reading the posts regarding the rumor/talk regarding double unity with with Ukrainian Catholic Church and I find that for some reason the general tone of said posts disturb me. In short there does seem to be what I would call a nastiness in spirit that I find rather disconcerting. I am a Latin Rite Catholic who is in the process of changing Rite to the UGCC and hope and pray that one day we will be united once again with our Orthodox brethren. Even families that bicker and squabble with one another sit down at the supper table and eat together. All things are possible with the Holy Spirit. I am but a simple man that is not very smart and I don't pretend to understand all of the problems and theological debates between us but I do feel a deep anguish that we are separated. I continue to read this board but try not to post any longer as I myself find that I tend to be uncharitable when doing so. Please pray for me and for a resolution to our seperation.

In Christ:
Einar

We are having a real hard time at keeping things in a charitable tone on this topic. Being that myself and the administrator have each have warned previously, this thread and topic are now closed. There is another poll/thread in another section. If any of the attitudes and uncharitable posts go there next, that will also be closed and the topic will be forbidden to be reintroduced again on this forum.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator