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I thought this was an interesting story.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/articles/a0000299.shtml

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About time.

Alas, it has been "about time" for almost 27 years.

Shalom,
Memo

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Good!

How many have been taken in?

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Whereas I do not believe that the Blessed Theotokos has been appearing in Medjugorje, I think that event is a great example of how God will work in any situation. I know of a number of people whose faith have been strengthened by trips to Medjugorje, and I even must admit that my path to converting to the Catholic Church was helped along by the Medjugorje event (although I've never been there).

What a great God we have Who will pour His grace and mercy into any situation, even one as problematic as Medjugorje.


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A trip my wife and her twin sister took to Medjugorje has greatly strengthened her faith.

Ryan

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I also was greatly inspired by Medjugorje in the beginning, but now I'm not so sure what's going on there is truly holy anymore.

The lack of obedience is troubling as well as the materialism. The village has definitely benefitted from this materially, but how is it that in the midst of one of the most volatile areas in Eastern Europe there's been no profound change that hasn't impacted relations with the nearby Orthodox and Muslims? Maybe I'm being idealistic, but it would seem that one of the fruits would be a be a change or some relief in the violence there.

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I am saddened by the whole mess. Certainly good has come out of this mess, but is that not partly the definition of God's mercy?

It is about time. End it and move on.

In ICXC,

Gordo

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Fr. Groeschel said one time that instead of chasing every Marian apparition that comes along, people ought instead to sit down and read the gospels.

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I agree this. So true.

Once upon a time, St. Paisius from the desert saw in a vision our Lord Jesus Christ. All was light and blessing. The Saint told our Lord that he would not need to see Him in this life, but after the passing, in the future life, an everlasting regard.

Reading and living the Holy Evangelia.

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Originally Posted by lanceg
Fr. Groeschel said one time that instead of chasing every Marian apparition that comes along, people ought instead to sit down and read the gospels.

The reason this happens is it is tangible to people, in some ways, they can reach out and touch it - at least to them. They can touch the Word of Christ in his Gospel and his Eucharist everyday of their lives - in doing so they touch Christ.

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I have problems with Marian apparitions wherever they may be.
I am not prepared to deny that some of them, at least, are real,but..first, I have a deep suspicion of people who thirst for signs and wonders. Second, the devotees of these events
seem to think that they supercede everything that the Church
had taught or done for the last two thousand years.

I read a post somewhere in which a woman asked if the Pope had
disobeyed Our Lady in not dedicating Russia to her. Did it never
occur to this poor booby that insofar as the governance of the
Church is concerned, the Pope, being Vicar of Christ, far outranks Our Lady?

If Our Lord wants any pope to do any particular thing He is
quite capable of informing him thereof without using His Mother
and a bunch of children somewhere as intermediaries.

Such a fuss about the "Secrets of Fatima". Shame on the Vatican
for pandering to the Fatimiads. In matter of faith, the Catholic
Church has no secrets. This sems to me to be mere supersticious
nonsense.

Edmac


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I have been open to it since I learned about Medjugorje over 10 years ago. They seem like they may be authentic. The evangelicals who disbelieve always say that satan always acts as an agent of good. But why would these messages call for prayer, fasting, conversion, and works of penance. That doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, I would like to know more about the disobedience of the seers to the Bishop. It frustrates me that this is not brought up at all by those who seem to be in favor of the apparition being authentic.

If we are searching for truth, then those who are supportive of medjugorje should be giving an answer to these charges. But you just don't hear about the Bishop asking the seers to stop publishing these messages in websites like Medjugorje.org

I also think that in this day and age, where the world is looking for signs and wonders, that's the only thing that catches people's attention. It must really be fantastic in order for it to get any press.

I want the apparitions to be true because I do see that there have been conversions, there have been miracle healings.

BUT: there are some things that are problematic, and the main thing is the issue with submission to the Bishop. I think that's a biggie. If the apparitions are truly real, then it doesn't matter if there is a political feud between the Bishop and the Franciscans. The truth will win out. So that means that everyone there needs to take a deep breath and give submission to the Bishop. Because submitting to the Bishop means submitting to Christ.

It is unfortunate that it seems to be such a mess there.

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Brothers and sisters in Christ,

The article that began this particular discussion (it is one of several articles that were derivative of each other with slightly different headlines but similar content that appeared in different media about the same time) is reasonably well explained and fairly convincingly repudiated by the more accurate recounting of the available facts rather than rumor or opinion (both or which unfortunately were at the center of the original article as were some erroneous "facts") in the following below much better informed and more carefully written article that appeared on "Spirit Daily" at http://www.spiritdaily.net/gemma.htm :

"LONDON TABLOID INACCURATELY PORTRAYED BISHOP AS SPEAKING FOR VATICAN AGAINST APPARITIONS

The "news" has flashed across blogs and chain-mail lists and even onto at least one Catholic news site:

Medjugorje had been condemned -- proclaimed as evil -- by the Vatican.

That was the subject tag for a flood of e-mails and fodder for chat rooms around Europe and North America. The headline came from an English newspaper and said, "Vatican denounces group's claim of seeing the Virgin Mary more than 40,000 times as 'work of the devil.'"

It was a dream come true for the many enemies of the alleged apparitions. Finally: the famed apparition site in Bosnia-Hercegovina, which has been drawing more pilgrims than any apparition since Fatima -- and perhaps before that (forty million since 1981) -- had been denounced, ending the debate. Vanquished.

It seemed so cut and dry, with one major hitch: the report -- that it was a Vatican official -- was erroneous, disseminated (left and right) in a lurid London tabloid as a sparsely detailed article that was then picked up by those bloggers and sites such as CathNews in Australia which long have hankered to give Medjugorje its comeuppance. The tabloid took it from a short interview with the bishop in an Italian internet journal and hyped it into a Vatican ruling.

Most major religious news sites stayed away from the story -- knowing that there had been no such pronouncement from Rome. In fact, a recent decision by the Vatican to take Medjugorje away from a negative-leaning national bishops' commission was seen as the most important positive development for the site since 1986 (when the local bishop's authority to rule on it was likewise removed after he tried to reject the apparitions).

Still, there were the e-mails -- based on purported and still unconfirmed statements by Monsignor Andrea Gemma of Italy, a retired bishop-exorcist who, it was claimed, told an Italian magazine that Medjugorje is a deception that will soon be ruled against by Rome.

"It is a scandal," he was quoted as saying. According to the newspaper, the Vatican will "soon crack down on the group [of seers]."

But a Vatican spokesman Bishop Gemma is not -- and never was, discrediting the headline and the flurry of e-mails quoting the tabloid, which, in the tradition of British journalism, often designs headers before it finds facts to support them. First published in 1896 by Lord Northcliffe, it is Britain's second biggest-selling daily newspaper (after The Sun).

Where its idea originated that this local bishop represented the Vatican was not readily apparent. According to a Church biography, Gemma served as the prelate of the Isernia-Venafro diocese from December 7, 1990 to August 5, 2006 but was never in a ranking position at the Vatican. To say one of Italy's bishops speaks for the Vatican (there are 225 dioceses, not to mention all the retired prelates) is like saying that a federal official in Pittsburgh speaks for the White House.

In fact, there are no official "Vatican" exorcists. The idea that he was such apparently came from a popular secular book written by Tracy Wilkinson about exorcists in Italy and entitled -- in a way that alluded to the Church as a whole, not the Holy See -- The Vatican's Exorcists.

Said the book, which featured several exorcists: "Gemma, seventy-four, speaks at times with a slow, dramatic flair, repeating his words for emphasis." It added that he was a featured speaker at a meeting of exorcists "where he regaled the priests with his stories, his eagerness to knock down the mystique around diabolical possession, and his penchant for the closest thing to irreverence that a bishop can muster when talking about Church hierarchy."

Despite the fact that Rome has never said anything negative about Medjugorje -- remaining neutral, at least for now -- that freewheeling style fit neatly with The Mail's own penchant for articles that cast a negative light on the Church. Noted one English viewer (Peter Devine, of County Durham): "The Daily Mail newspaper is the Catholic Church's greatest enemy in England."

A recent headline: "Lord Winston accuses Catholic church of 'lying' over controversial Embryo Bill."

Here you can see more of what the publication is like (viewer discretion advised).

"Daily Mail apologizes for false Ukrainian Hitler doll report," said a recent correction.

This is the source for the bloggers, who may now want to take note of the manner in which it was presented.

The Mail was not, however, the original source. "You'll see that soon the Vatican will intervene with something explosive to unmask once and for all who is behind this deceit," the now 77-year-old bishop told Petrus, an online Italian Catholic journal.

If that is ever the case, we will adhere to the verdict. The Gemma statement went on to say that the Church already has spoken through the Bishop of Mostar -- whose authority, in fact, has been stripped. That bishop long has been antagonistic to Medjugorje but his diocese lost authority over Medjugorje in 1986, rendering the idea that he speaks for the Church as another inaccuracy expressed in the Petrus interview by Gemma himself, who also erroneously stated that pilgrimages are not allowed there (despite official Vatican statements to the contrary; it has twice stated through its press office that while official parish pilgrimages are not allowed until there is Church approval, unofficial ones are allowed, including those with priests. The Cardinal of Sarajevo, who is the country's highest ecclesiastic authority, has repeated this).

Might Medjugorje one day be rejected?

While John Paul II was highly favorable toward the apparitions, even encouraging pilgrimages, and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger rescued the site from local condemnation, it is not clear how Benedict will act now that he is pontiff. We will adhere to whatever the Vatican decides. Thus far, it has decided nothing. When such an announcement comes, it will be through the Vatican press office from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Meanwhile, another priest highlighted in The Vatican's Exorcists -- the famed Father Gabriele Amorth, of Rome (who performed exorcisms with John Paul II) -- has visited Medjugorje and described it as both an authentic apparition and (ironically) a "fortress against Satan" [our italics].

[resources: Medjugorje and the Church]

[permission is granted for reproduction of this article]"

Your servant in Christ,
Deacon Mike

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Deacon Mike,

It is quite likely that the original article is skewed and perhaps even inaccurate in it's reporting. I found it unlikely that the Vatican would say anything - pro or con - until the purported apparitions ceased. There is no way they can declare them "valid" until they are completed, as there is no way to know whether the "Virgin Mary" or the supposed "seers" will later say something against the faith. Likewise, there is no reason for the Vatican to reject it explicitly as the local bishop has already done so. So to think that the Vatican is on the verge of rejecting Medjugorje is unlikely at best.

However, I must say that it is even less likely that one can get objective reporting from the Spirit Daily web site. It's creator is very receptive to any and all purported apparitions, and clearly will support any possible apparition or other supposedly supernatural event, regardless of the facts surrounding the matter.

Personally, I see little connection with the lifestyles of the supposed "seers" of Medjugorje and the recipients of previously validated apparitions such as Lourdes and Fatima. This tells me all I need to know about the validity of the Medjugorje appearances.


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