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Does anyone practice meditation?

I have some experience with spiritual meditation and contemplation. (I've tried to reply for a week, but my home computer wouldn't let me.)

Dear jkay,
Meditation upon the Scriptures or spiritual reading is encouraged. mediation associated with non-Christian religions is not compatible with Christianity. There was a previously thread relating to yoga which you could search for.

Do you care to expand on what you call "meditation?"

May Christ's peace be with you.

Not all Christians or Catholics are so quick to dismiss the wisdom of other traditions. Take for example, Fr. Bede Griffiths, an English Benedictine priest and theologian who spent much of his life in India.

The Christian Yogi - Bede Griffiths travelled East to speak to the West [ncronline.org]

The above noted article does point out concerns from some quarters about the dialogue Fr. Griffiths embraced. At the same time, to this day, Camaldolese hermits, a Benedictine Order of monks in the Catholic tradition, seek to continue the dialogue with Hindu mystics which Fr. Bede Griffiths fostered.


Camaldoli Hermitage - Big Sur, California [contemplation.com]

Camaldolese Institute for East-West Dialogue [bedegriffiths.com]

Grace and peace to you!

-Pustinik
----------------
"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved." �St. Serafim of Sarov

Pustnik:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph #2726, contains a general reference to "erroneous notions of prayer" and mentions as one of the tme "an effort of concentration to reach a mental void." This particular reference has been explained as a reference to so-called "Centering Prayer" that is modeled on non-Christian methods, especially deriving from Hindu sources.

Father Griffiths has been identified as a New Age practitioner who accuses Christians of not fully understanding Christ but who believes we need to go to Hindu and Moslem sources to clear up our misunderstandings. He seems to have a syncretistic approach to the spiritual world that involves the mixing of Christianity with these other pagan religions. Father Griffiths promotes the meditation method I mentioned which also passes as transcendental meditation (TM), certain yoga practices (e.g., Sadhana meditation), and Silva Mind Control.

You may find more about Father Griffiths and a synopsis of his work in The Unicorn in the Sanctuary. It's still available on Amazon and is a wake up call to Catholics about dangerous practices in the spiritual life.

In Christ,

BOB

Who among us would claim to fully understand Christ?

Dear Sir,

There are a few generalizations here which are unreferenced, and therefore not subject to review - unless the "unicorn" book is the source.

The reader is encouraged to do a search on "centering prayer" where the following can also be discovered:

"Centering Prayer (also referred to as the Prayer of the Heart) is the prayer described by the anonymous author of the spiritual classic, "The Cloud of Unknowing". This prayer has been rediscovered in our time by Cistercians Frs. William Meninger, Basil Pennington and Thomas Keating. Centering Prayer is one of the contemplative prayer forms St. John of the Cross describes as �the practice of loving attentiveness�."

Centering Prayer - A Gift From the Desert [kyrie.com]

Father Basil Pennington, of blessed memory, points to the Christian East as the origin of what he terms "centering prayer," writing:

"My own patron, Basil - later called "the Great" - and his schoolmate Gregory, the Theologian, threw aside their books, left the prestigious schools of Athens, and went off to find true wisdom among the gerontas (old men) in Syria and Egypt; "old man" is a term of respect used even today among the Greeks to address or speak about a significant spiritual father. St. Jerome might truly be included among these seekers, as well as his friends Paula and Melania, the Elder and the Younger. Among the pilgrims to the East must also be included a brilliant young man from Dalmatia whom the Eastern Christians today call St. John Cassian, the Roman."

Forum readers will note: just because someone lumps ancient/contemporary Christian prayer forms together with "Silva Mind Control" and TM does not mean that is true. The blogosphere and forums like this lend themselves to over simplified summaries. Even in regard to what I have written, as to what Theophan said about "centering prayer," let the reader recall the words of one past U.S. President: "Trust [if you must] but verify." Please do your own homework and may the Spirit of Truth guide you in your endeavors!

As stated in the reference I've noted above:
Simply sit relaxed and quiet...
Centre all your attention and desire on Him [the Lord] and let this be the sole concern of your mind and heart.

Father Basil Pennington has written an excellent book on the practice of "centering prayer."

"Centering Prayer" by Fr. Basil Pennington, OCSO [amazon.com]

He also wrote: "The Monks of Mount Athos: A Western Monk's Extraordinary Spiritual Journey on Eastern Holy Ground, " with a forward by Archimandrite Dionysios, available at Amazon.com among other places.


-Pustinik
================
"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved." �St. Serafim of Sarov

This topic is of concern to me personally as a close relative
has been practicing Centering Prayer for some time. As she
lives at a considerable distance, I have no opportunity to
see for myself. She certainly does not seem to be suffering any
harm from it. I have read articles pro- and con- and do not
know what to think. As far as I am aware, Rome has said nothing
one way or another about this movement. I am suspicious of it,
but then I am the type who is suspicious of anything "new" being
introduced in the Church, since so much of what has
appeared over the last forty years has been bad. I have had to
suspend judgement. I would be grateful if anyone could provide
guidance on this.

Furthermore, this same relative is an admirer of Fr. Richard
Rohr, and recently gave me one his tapes relating to Scripture
to comment on. I am not at all happy with it. The man seems to
mix an awful lot of Buddhism up with his Catholicism. He seems
always to be attacking reason and what he calls "fundamentalism".
He makes startling remarks, and does
not explain what he means by them. He has spent time in a
Zen monastery and seems to be throwing these remarks out
like a Zen Master throwing out "koan". From the question and
answer session it was apparent that his audience were very
young - college age or thereabouts, and also very unsophisticated
theologically. One young woman asked if we could
learn from the Gnostic Gospels. Fr. Rohr did not say "yes"
but did not exactly say "no", either. He had an opportunity to
explain why Gnosticism is a "bad thing", but didn't. Does
anyone know anything about this man? This one tape is all of
his I have ever heard or read.

Edmac

I don't know a thing about Fr. Robert Rohr, although a quick Google search shows there is a Wikipedia entry on him and that he most likely is a bit of a liberal Catholic Christian (which means I like him already).

I've seen (and read) a lot of the dialogue between Christianity and Buddhism - and it appears for every one person using the terms "Zen", "Buddhism", "awareness", etc. there is a new meaning for the word. I believe there is a lot of misunderstanding going on, if only because many proponents on both sides are using the same terms but meaning different things by them. It's a bit of a mess. If you want to know what your relative thinks about it, I'm afraid you'll have to ask her directly because, well - it's really the only way, since this particular topic is fraught with people talking right past one another ...

As for Centering Prayer, I have practiced it for some time now, and for me it has been a very good thing. As an FYI, I attended an RC parish and parochial grade school where any private devotional life was actively *discouraged* among us youngsters on the grounds that "we don't do that stuff anymore". I later attended a progressive Catholic high school where I learned that Christian meditation was not opposed to Catholicism, although I did not learn about Centering Prayer until relatively recently. Currently I am a Byzantine-rite Catholic (long story).

I like Centering Prayer precisely because of its apophatic qualities. To me, Centering Prayer is not that far away conceptually from the Jesus Prayer. That said, people are attracted to Centering Prayer for all sorts of reasons, and your relative's reasons may well be different from my reasons for liking Centering Prayer.

Certainly it is true that the form of Centering Prayer borrows a bit from some Eastern (non-Christian) meditative practices, but the substantive elements of the prayer are based on The Cloud of Unknowing, which (obviously) predates the modern North American fascination with Buddhism. In addition, the writer of The Cloud was profoundly influenced by the writings of Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite, so the prayer's substantive roots in early Christianity are well-established.

I have read a lot of misinformation and inaccuracies on-line about Centering Prayer, typically posted by people who haven't read about it - or who have only read just enough to get their screed on. My personal feeling about it is that those who claim that the practice Centering Prayer is a "bad thing" are coming from a position of fear - basically, of not liking something that looks different to them or that challenges their conventional notions of what Christian religiosity should be. These folks tend to forget that the Christian tradition contains both the apophatic and the cataphatic - and it is not good to abandon one tradition entirely for the other, IMHO.

While I obviously cannot comment on whether the practice of Centering Prayer is helping or harming your relative, I am hoping that, as is the case with most people I've met who practice the prayer, your relative is enthusiastic about Centering Prayer without acting sectarian/cultish about it.

HappyCat

Happy,

I think that for most of us, the term "liberal Catholic" refers to someone who likes being under the Catholic umbrella, so to speak, but sees an urgent need for the Church to reinvent itself according to the dictates of contemporary liberal political philosophy.

Some of the more extreme examples of this include "Liberation Theology" (Marxism couched in Christian terms) and "Creation-centered Theology" (a denial of the whole notion of personal sin), though most forms are not as focused or well-defined as these.

What do you mean by it?


Peace,
Deacon Richard

The term “liberal” came to my mind to describe Rohr as a result of my one-minute Google search to see what is out there on-line about him. That is the context in which I employed the term liberal to describe Rohr. He appears to have written quite a bit on Christian contemplative prayer and spirituality generally (so say the titles of his books) and he appears to discuss Buddhist philosophies in his works as well. This is what I gleaned from my cursory Google search.

In some circles, these facts alone might brand a Catholic as liberal-thinking, which most likely explains why the term liberal came to my mind to describe Rohr. His works do not appear to discuss Catholic teaching per se or the need to adhere to Catholic tradition specifically, but of course this might not be the overall point of his written works. That said, I found no evidence on-line that Rohr “sees an urgent need for the Church to reinvent itself according to the dictates of contemporary liberal political philosophy.” And for all I know (since I know next to nothing about him) he may be liberal on some points and conservative on others.

Hope this clarification helps! I realize there are several definitions of the term “liberal”, depending on what context the term is used …

HC

Thanks to Happycat for the input on Centering Prayer. I was
hoping to hear from someone with personal experience of it.
I've read some hysterical denunciations of it on the Net, but
don't much trust people who engage in such antics. I have also
read defenses. As far as I can tell the Church has had nothing
to say on the subject.

As for Fr. Rohr, I have done some homework and concluded that
he is to be avoided. I don't think he's a flaming heretic and
am not going to get hysterical about him. Basically, I think
he's a sham. My data were one tape of his given to me for
review by the relative in question, and one book which I
reluctantly went out and bought so I could give the man
some kind of fair hearing. It was Everything Belongs;
the Gift of Contemplative Prayer , in which he doesn't
actually say much about contemplative prayer. I suspect he
doesn't know much about it himself.

My relative ended up with an 11 page memo about him. Fear not.
I will not inflict it upon you (although anybody who wants
to read my deathless prose is welcome to it upon request).
A few issues:

1) Too much about Buddhism and Buddhist techniques. Very little
about Christian stuff. He has spent time in a Zen monastery
and also in Gethsemene Abbey. He speaks much of the former and
little of the latter.

2) He is a irresponsible teacher. On the tape especially
he kept throwing out one-liners like Zen koans which
he did not then explain: for example:

-"we only half-believe the Paschal mystery"

-"institutional religion is an uncertain trumpet"

-"nowadays it's 'Church, yes';'God,no."

The Q&A session at the end of the tape revealed that his
listeners (at least the three who asked questions) were
young and ill-instructed in the Faith. They deserved better
than that.

3) Two items I had major problems with:

A) On the tape, a young lady asked if we can learn something
from the Gnostic Gospels. Rohr waltzed around the issue;
did not explain that Gnosticism is a false religion; spoke
only of the Gospel of Thomas (which apparently is not
especially Gnostic) and ended up suggesting that maybe
we could learn something from the Gnostics.

B) The only Christian mystic he cites substanially in the
book is Juliana of Norwich. He takes pains to point out
that Juliana embraced apokatastasis, the doctrine
that all men will ultimately be saved. He says the Church
never condemned this doctrine. This is, as far as I can
determine, false. My reading indicates that the doctrine,
as a teaching of Origen, was condemned by the Second
Council of Constantinople and the decrees approved by
Pope Vigilius. Perhaps Rohr was not aware of this, for
which he would be blameworthy in any case. If he were
aware of it, he was being grossly dishonest and promoting
an heretical doctrine. I am no dogmatic theologian; if
I am missing something here, I will be happy to be
corrected.

4) Rohr doesn't talk much about Jesus Christ, Who is the
whole point of the operation.

5) I found that he is into (1) Male Initiation Ceremonies,
whatever they may be [having received the Sacraments of
Initiation AND gone through Basic Training,I feel quite
sufficiently initiated, thank you]and (2) the Enneagram,
which from what little I have read about it seems to be
a pretty dubious proposition. He has written books on
both subjects.

6) In the book Fr. R. declares that he accepts the teachings
of the Church. He also denounces "New Agery". As I read,
I found myself not so much disagreeing with
him as not knowing what he was trying to say. He tends to
be very vague. In a good many instances
I did agree with him.

Make what you will of all this.

Fr. Rohr is a Franciscan, by the way.

Note: I no longer have either the book or the tape, so cannot
refer to them for direct quotations.

Edmac

jkay-

Have I practiced meditation:
Yes, in one form or another for over 30 yrs.
Concerns:
I think we have to enter such a state with caution. I am quite familiar with several "New Age" ideas and some of the Buddhist and Hindu, TM practices. I think one of the problems of many eastern religions have is that the center tends to become "you" not "Jesus Christ" or "God". That's the biggest problem. Referring back to the culture of the 70's meditation was an "in" thing to do and a lot of it was about "feeling good". It does settle the nerves and relaxes you. That being said, over the years I've learned I am not the center of the universe and it is important to put Jesus as our focus. I don't think we need to borrow from other eastern faiths for our meditative practices as we have within the Catholic/Orthodox faiths all the tools we need in the Jesus Prayer and the Divine Mercy Chaplet. These are Christ-Centered and that is what is should be about,to develop our relationship with Jesus Christ and become more spiritually in-tune to him so that we may be better able to do his will.

I am well read on Centering Prayer, and Basil Pennington so I don't need further explaination as to what it is. I've been there. If you feel comfortable with it, investigate it and try it, but as I said please use caution as to what you are centering on.

The influence of New Age religion and reaching to Buddhism for answers is an ever escalating situation in our culture. The draw is appealling and flashy. But if you will notice, you don't see Jesus Christ mentioned much.

I know when I have gone through difficult times, relying on information provided by New Age gurus hasn't been that helpful. My Christian faith has been what has pulled me through,

Anyway, I am not trying to be a downer on Centering prayer. I think used responsibly it can be a positive to your spirtual development, just please enter in with both eyes open and focus on the Lord Jesus Christ and bringing him into your heart.

God bless you.