www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The Organ In Greek Orthodox Churches

I must confess, that I only found out that many Greek Orthodox churches have organs, when an Orthodox priest told me about this last Sunday. So, my next questions for starters are. 1.When did this practice begin ? 2.Was there opposition to it ? 3. Is there opposition to it now ?

Dear Lawrence,

To the best of my knowledge, there is no opposition to the organ in my Church.

The hymns of the Church have been rewritten and reset to choir music, and they sound nice. Most churches still have a chanter too, so that there is a combination of Byzantine traditional chant, (much to the annoyance of alot of people because many of them are not very good, and they chant in Greek with a very unappealing nasaly type of chant) and Westernized singing.

As I experience both the utmost traditional in Greece, and the evolved American church music in the U.S., I cannot say that one sounds better than the other. They are simply different. In the cathedral in Washington, D.C., I have heard the symphony of a male Byzantine chanter (with a good voice) with a female (amazing voice) chanter...and it was delightful. You would NEVER hear a woman in Greece, but this 'innovation' worked and was utterly beautiful.

I know that the some purists get annoyed at any deviation from purely Byzantine/traditional--whether it is in iconography or music, but I believe that there is room for the church to be 'organic' and to evolve, without changing any of the fundamentals of faith or worship.

After all, who can really say what is the true 'original/traditional' of anything!! For instance, Christian Byzantine art in the Haghia Sophia was not as abstract as other periods which some consider to be the perfect iconography.

Just some thoughts,
Alice

Even in Greece one can find a variety. I've sometimes heard women chanters (especially at the Akathistos, which seem appropriate somehow), and choirs singing harmonized music.

One particularly striking example was at an All-Night Vigil at the Metropoli in Athens - the opening Psalm of Vespers was chanted by a woman, most beautifully and powerfully (the music, that is - I didn't see the woman!) with a choir doing the refrains of the Anoixantaria. It was the feast of Saint Philothea, one of the patrons of the city.

Footnote - I enjoyed the music so much that a couple of days later I bought a recording of it at ZOE. Had trouble with a purist customer who tried to persuade me not to buy it because "that's not Byzantine"!

Fr. Serge

Good to hear! I stand corrected....



Alice

I happened to catch an episode of Bridezillas (don't ask me why...) and the "happy" couple were Pittsburghers. They were married at St. Nicholas Cathedral in Oakland and the organ music even made it onto TV. I asked about it, and someone said they got the building from the Presbyterians or something, who left the organ, so they decided to use it.

I'm told that organs were put into Greek Churches in the USA, because many wanted to fit in more with American culture. I think many parishes are either not using them or even removing them (a local parish seems to have gotten rid of one), but I certainly can't say that about each.

Organs are often used to 'cover' and inexperienced choir, but with the unfortunate effect of washing out their ability to hear their part and sing correctly!

All in all, better off without them. Trust me.

while organs do have their place, nothing beats the instrument known as the human voice. as a one time chorister, I can tell you a capella is inimitable. as far as organs in churches are concerned, the Churches of Christ are opposed to ANY instrument in their churches, and the four part harmony in worship is beautiful.
Much Love,
Jonn

So approximately when did Greek Orthodox churches begin using organs, and is practice limited to North America, or is it everywhere ?

Jonn

I went to a Church of Christ service in the early 90's, and I wasen't at all impressed with the singing.

Dear Lawrence,

You will find everything you wanted to know in this article about Greek Orthodox church music...the answers to your particular questions are in the last paragraph.

http://www.saintbarbara.org/faith/worship/chant.cfm

In Christ,
Alice

C. I. X.

Voice, the only musical instrument made by God.

The use of instruments is cultural not religious depending if you translate �orthodox� as true belief or true worship. If this was in a Greco Catholic scenario we would be screaming �Uniate!�. If Bulgarian, Carpath-Russian, Rumanian, Serbian, Slovak, or Ukrainian Orthodox we would be discussing blatant Latinization. If it was the OCA or Antiochians we would be accusing converted Westernization. But in refurbished Gothic churches, Greek Cathedrals and ballparks organs are not only permissible but even progressive. Wonder what Patriarch Nikon would have said?

When we got too 'hung up' on externals, and pride ourselves on being more traditional than traditional, more orthodox than the Orthodox, and/or more Catholic than the Pope, then we forget the *spirit* of the words of Jesus Christ...for in the first church, none of what we know today was exactly like it is now, so should we consider everything that has been handed down to us through the evolving ages of the Church as being 'innovation'?!? I think not.

Does an all male chant guarantee our salvation before the awesome judgement seat over a mixed choir w/organ? I think not. I don't think that God cares about these trivialities.

I refer everyone to the excellent article I posted...and ask that in the future posters not compare ballparks with Greek churches.

Thank you.

Alice, Moderator

You are correct about those externals, Alice. I don't think anyone's salvation rides on them. I generally find that people who are obsessed with them quickly get on my nerves. However, I can't believe no one has said, "Is outrage! Was it organs in 19th century Russia? It was not!"

Lawrence and everyone,

As a soon to be retired choir director in a GOA parish that has not used the organ in 6 months, let me address your questions:

1) I believe the practice began during the time that Archbishop--later Ecumenical Patriarch--Athenagoras was in the US.

2) I have often wondered if there was opposition. Considering that an Orthodox mantra is "We never did it that way before!" I am surprised the organ became so popular. However, as other posters have said, there was a push to give the Greek Orthodox churches a more "American mainstream" feel. Enter organs, choirs and shiny robes.

3) "Opposition" may be too strong of a word, but there are many clergy and some laity who don't think organs should be used. I get the impression that many clergy simply tolerate it, and would prefer a cappella choirs or Byzantine chanting groups.

While most GOA parishes have organs, there are some notable exceptions. The cathedral in Washington, DC has a chanting group. The parish in Greensboro, NC has an a cappella choir under the able direction of Kevin Lawrence. Mr. Lawrence has produced a bilingual hymnal and choir music book, with his own 3- and 4-part harmonizations. There is also a lovely CD available of this choir. The new parish of St. Nektarios in Charlotte, NC has antiphonal Byzantine choirs under the direction of Hieromonk Seraphim Dedes that chant primarily in English (imagine that!). And little ole' Columbia, SC has been singing without an organ steadily since January. A few people hate it, but most say we sound good.

There is a lot of emotional attachment to organs in the GOA. "Tradition" is defined as "what was done when I was 10 years old" so organs are entrenched in the understanding of Orthodox music for many parishioners who have had little or no exposure to Orthodox traditions worldwide. Some take great pride that THEIR church in America is different. I had one man say to me "It's not a Greek Orthodox Church without an organ!!!" Having been to Constantinople last July, I asked him whether the Patriarchal Cathedral of Saint George was Greek Orthodox enough.

Needless to say, I am not fond of organs in Orthodox Churches. I do not think it is an issue to break communion over. I do not think Our Lord will judge anyone harshly for playing an organ. However, I do think that there is a certain aesthetic of Eastern Orthodox music that makes it by nature a cappella. Even the most westernized, baroque Russian choir never used an organ. Of course, some could say to me that choirs should be abolished too and that chant should everywhere reign. I wouldn't go that far.

If I get a chance, I will try and include a quote from an old Greek Orthodox hymnal by George Anastasiou. He has some creative history for the use of organs in the Christian East.

Dave

I think the pipe organ is looked upon as very western, and the most immediate, common, Byzantine custom is not to play musical instruments for liturgical services. One can also distinguish coral/polyphony versus chant -- choir versus congregation, whole or in part. I recall reading that certain monastic elements considered any singing too exuberant and affected for even communal, liturgical prayer.

The ideal for my tastes, a noble simplicity, is unaccompanied, cantor/kliros-lead, full congregational singing of spontaneously harmonized plainchant.

All that said, we can hardly dismiss our most ancient roots:


And the pipe is, in the LXX, organo!