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Mar 25th, 2025
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Ung,
Congress can overdie the veto. The Metropolitan is not a Mini-Pope who can impose his will on the other hierarchs. Perhaps he could have declined to promulgate, but if the other three were for it they could probably have gotten around that. Patriarchs have been forced to resign by their Synods.
Fr. Deacon Lance Wow! Somebody's arms are getting really long here! 
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1. Not in my book.
2. The Archbishop is the one who promulgated the RDL. He could have refused to promulgate it. He could have demanded it be done right. The RDL is his RDL and he bears total responsibility. Then your book does not agree with the teaching of Christ or his Church. Christ cautioned that even the hypocritical priests, scribes and pharisees were to be given respect. Many a saint has disagreed with a hierarch but did so without being disrespectful. Again you are wrong. The Council/Synod of Hierarchs ultimately decides these things. The Chief Hierarch is the spokesman for this body. This is the Eastern way. What you propose evidences a very Latinized hierarchal view. Fr. Deacon Lance
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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Ung,
Congress can overide the veto. The Metropolitan is not a Mini-Pope who can impose his will on the other hierarchs. Perhaps he could have declined to promulgate, but if the other three were for it they could probably have gotten around that. Patriarchs have been forced to resign by their Synods.
Fr. Deacon Lance Fact: If Archbishop Basil refused to promulgate the RDL it would not have been promulgated. He could have sent it back to committee to fix the problems. He didn't. It is his. He owns it. He holds full responsibility for it.
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1. Not in my book.
2. The Archbishop is the one who promulgated the RDL. He could have refused to promulgate it. He could have demanded it be done right. The RDL is his RDL and he bears total responsibility. Then your book does not agree with the teaching of Christ or his Church. Christ cautioned that even the hypocritical priests, scribes and pharisees were to be given respect. Many a saint has disagreed with a hierarch but did so without being disrespectful. Again you are wrong. The Council/Synod of Hierarchs ultimately decides these things. The Chief Hierarch is the spokesman for this body. This is the Eastern way. What you propose evidences a very Latinized hierarchal view. Fr. Deacon Lance Fact: If this were an Orthodox jurisdiction the people would have seen that the bishops were removed from office for what they have done. The liturgy does not belong only to the bishops. It belongs to everyone.
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I thought a ground-up approach was more the Eastern way, while a top dominated centralized hierarchy was the preferred Roman Catholic pattern.
After all, it is the entire Orthodox Church with the laity and the clergy who determine if an Ecumenical Council is truly Holy and Ecumenical. Both clergy and laity together define what is infallible in the Orthodox Church, is not that true?
Last edited by Elizabeth Maria; 08/04/08 08:39 PM.
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Ung,
Congress can overide the veto. The Metropolitan is not a Mini-Pope who can impose his will on the other hierarchs. Perhaps he could have declined to promulgate, but if the other three were for it they could probably have gotten around that. Patriarchs have been forced to resign by their Synods.
Fr. Deacon Lance Fr. Dn., Can we assume the vote for the promulgation would have been unanimous? If we were truly self-governing (parish councils and semi-annual Sobors), the RDL would have never reached committee. Ung
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1. The title of the book in question is:
[ Studies on the Byzantine Liturgy 1]
The Draft Translation: A Response to the Proposed Recasting of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom
2. Yes, Congress can over-ride a veto. No, over-riding a veto does not compel the President to sign anything. Not that many years ago, the King of Belgium abdicated for 24 hours rather than sign a certain law.
3. Whether Metropolitan Judson of blessed memory had anything to do with the recasting is a matter which (so far) cannot be proved. It is quite easy to demonstrate that Metropolitan Basil promulgated the recasting; the praise or blame therefore accrue to Kyr Basil.
Fr. Serge
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