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Neil,
I wondered the same thing, but then if you read the statement carefully it says that the Vatican does not "recognize" these ordinations and that it regards their "canonical status" as that which was prior to the ordinations. There is alot of wiggle room there in those words, since it does not address "validity" per se...only canonical recognition both now and into the future.
That's just my read on it.
Gordo
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If the Church holds to this stance, it may indicate a shift in its traditional stance on Apostolic Succession from the Augustinian Theory to the Cyprianic Theory (see post 5 in the linked thread), a long overdue change in the opinions of many.
This would effectively negate (at the very least, future) instances in which vagante ecclesia could feel assured in asserting the apostolicity of a line of Apostolic Succession derived from the Archbishop, as is currently the case with such lines derived from other renegade hierarchs of the Latin, Eastern, and Oriental (Orthodox and Catholic) Churches, as well as hierarchs of the Old Catholic Church and its legitimate and illegitimate American descendents.
Citing oneself as being of the Milingo Line would be of at least lesser standing than is potentially accorded to the so-called Vilatte, Duarte-Costa, Mathew, Alvarez, Ofiesh, Aneed, Thuc, Carfora, Brothers, and Gul Lines, to name just a smattering of the genre.
Many years,
Neil Interesting thought - but currently considering the ongoing negotiations with some groups (not just the SSPX) who would only have valid orders vis-a-vis the Augustinian approach, and considering the current Pope before becoming Pope often led those discussions, I don't see a large-scale realignment to Cyprianic ideals happening. I think the act of Leo XIII with the Anglicans perhaps illusrated that the Catholic Church does not have a pure Augustinian approach; there can be limits and times where the application of some Cyprianic tenets are appropriate. I have a friend who is a former Anglican minister who was ordained a (married) Latin priest; he was required to not only be sacramentally ordained in the Latin Church but also to be confirmed beforehand by his Latin bishop. FDD
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Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos: Amado said: According to the 2005 Annuario Pontificio, the Catholic Church in Zambia is organized under:
2 Archdioceses
8 suffragan dioceses
265 parishes
19 bishops
637 priests (diocesan and religious)
1 permanent deacon
596 male religious
1,596 female religous
Like one in six or seven parishes has a priest?
Logos Teen Garrett: At least, you did not call me also weird!  As Alfonsus and Neil have already pointed out, you are misidentifying the male religious (596 of them), who are not priests, and the male religious who were also ordained priests (354 of them and 283 diocesan priests). Generally, there are about 29% Catholics in Zambia's total population. Having been a former British colony, Anglicans probably constitute the other "major" Christian denomination in Zambia (upwards to 25% of the total population). The "weird" part of the numbers is that Catholics were only about 6% of the total population during the 1950s. According to the Vatican, the Portuguese started it in the 16th century and the Jesuits and White Fathers continued in the 19th century without much success. Evagelization efforts were re-ignited in the 1930s until native Zambians were more open in the 1950s. Overall, I think the Catholic Church in Zambia has done a good job of evangelization and Abp. Milingo was part of those efforts as he was ordained a priest in 1958. Amado
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Originally posted by johnofthe3barcross:
So are these married Bishops legit? Both Catholic and Orthodox have a celibate episcopate and do not allow or ordain married priests as Bishops. The 4 who were "re-ordained" by Abp. Milingo were already "bishops" in their own personal jurisdictions and were, I think, "ordained" while being married priests. The ceremonies were held in the Imani Temple of George Stallings, Jr., one of the "re-ordained" bishops. As identified by ZENIT: (1) George Stallings Jr., a former Catholic priest of the Washington Archdiocese who broke from the Church in 1989 to form his own African American Catholic Congregation. In 1990 Stallings received episcopal "ordination" by bishops of independent Old Catholic churches. Stallings was supposedly re-ordained by Archbishop Milingo on Sunday. (2) Peter Paul Brennan of the African Orthodox Church and the Ecumenical Catholic Diocese of the Americas; (3) Patrick Trujillo of the Archdiocese of Our Lady of Guadalupe of New Jersey of the Old Catholic Church in America; and (4) Joseph Gouthro of Las Vegas, presiding bishop of the Catholic Apostolic Church International. Are these groups Catholic? Amado
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Originally posted by Altar Boy:
What ever happened to Holy Scripture as the rule of faith?
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, [b]the husband of one wife , vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; [/b] Don't muddy the waters with Holy Writ. That stuff is for those crazy Bible Christians, Reformers, and Protestants.
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Catholic Gyoza Member
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"His eminence" looks like Kathy Bates!  WHY doe she have a bed post in his hands?  At least his Pani Matka keeps him well fed! Did anyone read his CV? It is more outrageous than L Ron Hubbard's! So much for humility.
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I have an ANNOUNCEMENT to make:
As of today, I will be forming the "Third Reorganized Second-Day After Friday Orthodox Catholic Church of the First Restored Gospel with Miracles and Signs Following" naming myself Grand Patriarchal Poo-Bah and Head Honcho and All Around High Holiness, DD, JD, STD, XYZPDQ.
Our patriarchal throne will be located in the recently vacated 7-11 at the corner of Main and Church Street.
Divine Services using the Ancient Liturgy of Gumba in its original Krakosian with sign language interpreters will be broadcast on channel 2 at 3:45am on alternate Tuesdays every other month.
We will very soon upgrade our tape ministry to 8-track and will be offering my three part series on the Book of Revelation: "Elvis and the Rapture," "My Left Behind" and "Apocalypse Meow: Will Cats one Day Rule the World?" for $50 apiece.
I will be writing a book, "There Is No 'i' in TEAM- but there is 'm-e': My Life as the Rogue Prelate" which will be self-published through our ministries's publishing arm, Armchair Ecclesiarchs Press.
If you are seeking ordination to the priesthood, Wednesday is Bingo and vagante ordination night. We uphold the strictest standards in selecting candidates for ordination: they must be breathing and have a cleared check.
Our educational ministry, Arian Mills International Seminary, offers fully accredited* PhD's, DD's, STD's, JCD's to all paying homosapiens.
*Accredited by the Nigerian Ministry of Education and Diamond Mine Research. Every degree includes a 10% discount on your next Nigerian diamond mine purchase.
Join the movement! Be the only Patriarch in your neighborhood! Dial 1-800-WAN-NABE. My wife is standing by...call today!
Patriarch Gordo
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is VISA accepted? is it a secure site? my, I can't wait to get into some of their ecclesiastical finery and prance on down the runway. oh, is there a catalogue for the robes, etc.? you must let me know! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
Much Love,
Jonn
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Originally posted by Dr. Eric: "His eminence" looks like Kathy Bates!
WHY doe she have a bed post in his hands?
That is no bed post! That is Der Biggenthickenwoodengrossenkindercurtainhangerupperbeatenderhereticenonderheaden Episcopal Staff of Ulm! Alexandr
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Originally posted by Slavipodvizhnik: Originally posted by Dr. Eric: [b] "His eminence" looks like Kathy Bates! WHY doe she have a bed post in his hands?
Alexandr [/b]Actually, Alexandr, sorry to disappoint but it's only a replica. I have the original next to the Slurpee Mach...er Holy Water font.  And if you are wondering, that is an image of the Holy Handgrenade on top. Patriarch Gordo of Middle Earth PS: John, our catalog, Aberrantie and Filtch, will be coming out this Fall. Earthtones are preferrable for '07, since we are trying to raise awareness of our "Save the Unicorn" campaign. Will warm up the lights on the runway, BTW! Get 'er dun...
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I think MY church will be led by Metropolitan Urban of Polis... with the Synodal Council adjudicated by by His Eminent Roundness, the All-knowing and Powerful Magic Eight Ball of Spheropolis... FDD
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Originally posted by ebed melech:
I have an [b]ANNOUNCEMENT to make:
As of today, I will be forming the "Third Reorganized Second-Day After Friday Orthodox Catholic Church of the First Restored Gospel with Miracles and Signs Following" naming myself Grand Patriarchal Poo-Bah and Head Honcho and All Around High Holiness, DD, JD, STD, XYZPDQ.
Our patriarchal throne will be located in the recently vacated 7-11 at the corner of Main and Church Street.
Divine Services using the Ancient Liturgy of Gumba in its original Krakosian with sign language interpreters will be broadcast on channel 2 at 3:45am on alternate Tuesdays every other month.
We will very soon upgrade our tape ministry to 8-track and will be offering my three part series on the Book of Revelation: "Elvis and the Rapture," "My Left Behind" and "Apocalypse Meow: Will Cats one Day Rule the World?" for $50 apiece.
I will be writing a book, "There Is No 'i' in TEAM- but there is 'm-e': My Life as the Rogue Prelate" which will be self-published through our ministries's publishing arm, Armchair Ecclesiarchs Press.
If you are seeking ordination to the priesthood, Wednesday is Bingo and vagante ordination night. We uphold the strictest standards in selecting candidates for ordination: they must be breathing and have a cleared check.
Our educational ministry, Arian Mills International Seminary, offers fully accredited* PhD's, DD's, STD's, JCD's to all paying homosapiens.
*Accredited by the Nigerian Ministry of Education and Diamond Mine Research. Every degree includes a 10% discount on your next Nigerian diamond mine purchase.
Join the movement! Be the only Patriarch in your neighborhood! Dial 1-800-WAN-NABE. My wife is standing by...call today!
Patriarch Gordo [/b] How darest thou usurp mine authority! I am the Supreme Pontifical Patriarch of the Reunited Reformed Apostolic Charismatic Orthodox Presby-Lutheran Catholic Church of Greater Southeast Missouri; Archbishop of North, South, and Central America; Metropolitan in Exile of St. Louis, MO; Doctor of Sacred Scripture; Occupant of the Throne of the Upstairs Bathroom; Inventor of the Flexi-Widget; Possessor of the Sacred Remote Control; Certified in Traditional Chinese Medicine; Certified in Classical Five-Element Acupuncture (pending;) Doctor of Letters; Doctor of Phrenology; Doctor of Palmistry; Inventor of the Flux-Capacitor; and Father of 4 (for now) Thou shalt not give away trade secrets that I haven't thought up yet. I sentence thee to perform 1000 prostrations and to send back thy decoder ring. When thou hast completed thine labors thou canst grovel before me and kiss mine ring that whistlest. Furthermore, I shalt send for my Holy Curtain Rod to knockest thou over thine cranium. Ericus Magnus IX DMD, DDS, DO, MD, DC, OMD, D Ac, STD, STL, QFPRZ (inside joke,) DD, D Div, MBA, BS, PhD, BA, AS, AA, GED
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OK, we are getting quite silly here and no longer even on the topic at hand, so the thread is being closed.
In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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