www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Vikings and the Russia

Oh, relics of St Andrew were brought to Scotland in the middle of the 8th Century. A Cathedral was built where the bones came ashore, (the East Neuk of Fife) and a town and University grew up around it.
The prestige of the site protected the Scottish Church from being taken over by the English, the Popes giving the title of "Special Daughter" to the Scottish Church.
Unfortunately, the relics did not survive the Reformation, but recently a relic of St Andrew was brought from Amalfi to replace what was lost.

Hello Jean:

Thank you for the information. I was wondering if it was Orthodox Christianity that the Vikings converted too. I will have to do more digging. Because I had seen references to Rus I assumed they were speaking of Old Russia.

In Christ:
Einar

Hello Edmac:


I am very aware of the fact that my ancestors raped and pillaged there way through Europe and for that I am sorry. Keep in mind though that many converted to Christianity. I am familiar with the history you mention, I am not a complete dolt.

Converted Viking

To every one that took the time to reply to my Viking posts. Thanks very much. I am going to tune out of this topic now and I ask the moderator to please shut down this thread. It was not my intention to make anyone angry.

In Christ:

Converted Viking

Dear brother,
One can see that many are looking for an excuse to vent or to "act out" as professionals might term it. I believe that a "content analysis" would reveal quite a bit of angry rhetoric on this site, sad to say, interspersed with love.

You asked an honest question in good faith. May the Lord's peace be on you and your family.

In Christ,
Pustinik
-------------------
"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved." –St. Serafim of Sarov

Слава Ісусу Христу!

Sophist Brethren,

We are trying to put event of a millennium ago into a 21st century focus using terms without analyzing their origins. What does “Ukraine “mean? What does “Russia” mean? What does “Belo Rus” mean? Who would use “Peking” today except to discuss a delicious duck dish? Maybe we should analyze “Poland” first and see if there is common thought amongst us.

Pustinilk suggested an alternative epoch. He thought from the north, I would like to stay focused from the south but not of missionaries but refugees. I have long thought the real Christianization of the Slavs were from the migration of orthodox fleeing the Iconoclast heresy, include today’s Poland, Slovakia and Czech Lands.

Coffee table books are not proper research, surely Harvard must have volumes in English from the 1988 inquest. Highlander brought up the privilege of the Scottish Church as “Special Daughter” being a protective title. How many other titles we use without looking into their historic significance? I drought “Viking” though popular is any more historically definitive in current English than calling the ruler of Kyiv a “prince”. Due to lack of Papal decrees we would not want to use “king” so we may need to use an alternative like “monarch” to represent importance. Olga, Olha, Oilha, Helga what ever you wish was not royalty but the daughter of a ferry operator. She became royal through “marriage” and her acceptance of Christianity had an interesting stipulation. The Byzantine (another modern term) emperor was to be her godfather in order that he nor his immediate family could wed her to possess her regent lands. The true first Christian rulers of Kyiv were Askold (St. Nicholas) and Dir (St. Sophia) the usurpers. This was hardly a loving royal family.

As Father Serge pointed out non of us are responsible for our ancestors nor are these ancestors responsible for current governments. Nor are these current governments responsible for our situation in the diaspora. Why do some think analyzing history is venting anger? We may need a moderator who is a history scholar to keep it on track. How can someone read banter as anger interspersed with love? Could that just be a case if the game is not going their way take the ball and go home?

Someone have a subject to start another stimulating historical analysis? Where did the name “Slav” come from…?

Don't be too sure! When I was in grade school I happened to read a then-popular book on a then-popular level of writing called Anything Can Happen in America. Imagine my surprise a few years later to find it quoted in a quite weighty tome as supplying proof that Eleanor of Aquitaine really had gone on the Second Crusade! You just never know what will turn up where.

Fr. Serge

Dear Pustinik:




Thank you for your reply. Perhaps I should look at myself first regarding anger issues.

In Christ:
Converted Viking

Did anyone think they might have been the Varangian guards of the Emperor, surely they were baptized in Constantinople, perhaps some of them end up in Rus.
Stephanos I

Although "Viking" properly refers to the sea raiders of the 9-10th centuries, it is commonly used quite loosely to mean Medieval Scandinavians, some of whom not only were christians but went on pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Some of these were stranded on the way home in Orkney in a storm. They sheltered in the burial mound of Maes Howe (built some 2000 years earlier) and left grafitti on the stonework mentioning their pilgrimage and including a beautifully carved dragon.
There doesn't seem any reason to get pedantic about the word "Viking"

There are Sagas that recount some of the history of the Norse peoples and occurances. The "Heimskringla" or Chronicle of the Kings of Norway by Snorri Sturlison is one of them. Part of is is the tale of King Olaf Haraldsson aka St. Olaf. It can be found here in English: http://omacl.org/Heimskringla/

The Icelanders converted to Christianity around the year 1000 by discussion and judgement at the "Althing" a kind of parliament or law meeting.
http://www.randburg.com/is/thingvellir.html

There are recountings of Icelanders and others from Scandinavia who went to Constantinople to join the Varangian Guard in the sagas as well. "Laxdaela Saga" tells of Bolli Bollason's journey to do that. The point was that for some such a trip and job was a chance to gather wealth and fame that, if they lived, they took back home to Iceland or Norway or other parts.

Hilde

Dear Converted Viking,
I can join you in this. A friend who was in law enforcement in the northeastern US, a devoted Catholic Christian, and a former professional boxer shared his experience. He said he was always getting into fights until he took up the sports of boxing and karate. Once he knew he could defend himself he would look for ways to avoid conflict. Much of the fighting, he told me, came from personal insecurity. He was happy with the peaceful posture he developed and it served him well in his profession as a law officer.

That being said, the natural instincts to defend oneself and vigorously support the truth (or one's honor...) as one understands it still rises up - sometimes hurting those "in our way." The story of how St. Seraphim of Sarov dealt with the robbers who attacked him inspires me to try to be more peaceful even against those perpetrating injustices. Not that it's easy.

God bless you in your quest, and our fellow forum members,
-Pustinik
------------------------
"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved." –St. Serafim of Sarov

Слава Ісусу Христу!

“The Roman Catholic Church considers Volodymyr to be an 'Equal to the Apostles' and in fact has mosaics of both him and St-Olha (St-Helga in Scandinavian, St-Olga in [Old Slavonic] (Russian) [usage] on a wall of St-Peter's Basilica in Rome. … help you locate … in St-Peters”. Quote Jean Francois

These two pictorial medallion mosaics flank St, Basil’s alter. Under this alter behind glass and grate is the uncorrupted relics of the martyr St. Josaphat “Jyo-sa-FUt” (Kuntsevych) vested in episcopal crown and omophorion (which he once pawned for the poor). Most think it a statue as this is one of only two uncorrupted bodies in St. Peter’s. With current Vatican attitudes these relics are being downplayed, usually kept behind a staging area and doesn’t even rate a reference in most current guide books. The Basilian Fathers at their monetary in Vilnius Lithuania are ready with a shrine in case his translation (eviction) is called for. In reality his story and travels is the history of the Rusyn Church in communion with Rome.

Born of Rusyn nobility (szlachta) Joann Kuntsevych entered the monastic life in Vilnius capital of Lithuania, where he was elected shepherd of present Belo-Rusyn eparchies. He authored books on the baptism of Volodymyr, published falsifications concerning the Slavs and on monastic vows. His preaching of church unity influenced Ignatius Patriarch of Moscow and Byzantine royal Emmanuel Cantacuzenus. His attempts to extend granted concessions from the Polish (Lithuanian) Crown to the Orthodox were opposed at every step by Chancellor Sapieha. Archbishop Josaphat (Kuntsevych) was martyred on the then feast of Saint Martin I Bishop of Rome, defender of orthodoxy before the Byzantine Emperor and Constantinople Patriarch. This mob assassination occurred in 1580 within Polish administrative territory now Belo-Rus’.

This first Vatican canonized Greco Catholic saint the martyred Archbishop Josaphat was added to the Latin’s international calendar in 1867, promoted by the Polish Latin Church. His relics were enshrined in Vienna from 1623 to 1867, where found uncorrupted when moved to Rome for his glorification. Pope Pius XI in his 1923 encyclical ECCLESIAM DEI called St. Josaphat a “hero-martyr”. As the God-less Soviet (communist) Army was invading the Pidilashia area, the U S (free) Army was approached to evacuated his relics. Hiding them under a bed of coal they were trucked into the Vatican as a coal delivery in 1949. During Vatican II St. Josaphat was publicly translated by Pope Paul VI and enshrined beneath Saint Basil’s alter near the relics of St. John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian in 1963.

The promotion of Saint Josaphat amongst Ukrainians is due to Basilian monastic chauvinist nepotism. This lead to his patronage in the Priestly Society of St. Josaphat who is in defiance of Ukrainian Catholic norms. They reject non-organic de-Latinisation promotion (suppressing public promotion of Stations, rosary and benediction with the monstrance). They use Church Slavonic exclusively avoiding particularistic nationalism, promote consecration of Russia to the Theotokos of Fatima, and unquestionable fidelity to pre-Vatican II Roman norms rejecting ecumenism. They are associated with the Society of Saint Pius X. One argument is that the Church of Ss. Cyril and Methodius inaugurated by Pope Adrian II and blessed by Pope John VIII was to be bi-ritual, another is the Church of the Union was not to be a national but an international Slavic witness.

The accent in Saint Josaphat's name falls on the first syllable in English. It is an alternative spelling of Jehosaphat.

Fr. Serge

Слава Ісусу Христу!

Thank you Father for cleaning up my American, from the land of the Celts.