www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Trying to understand the authority of the Pope

Can someone explain to me the difference between the authority of the Pope over the Byzantine Catholic Church vs the Roman Catholic Church.. (or however the heck I am supposed to be labeling things)? For instance does the Catechism of the Catholic Church have the same authority over the whole Catholic Church, East and West? If the Pope writes an encyclical on "just war" is that in some way binding on the whole Church? Is my question clear?

Depends in good part on just what you mean by "the Byzantine Catholic Church". The several Local Churches which follow the Constantinopolitan tradition and maintain communion with Rome are not a unitary body, nor are they all in the same position.

Fr. Serge

I may be wrong, but the Catechism of the Catholic Church is for ALL Catholics...Byzantine Churches and the Roman Catholic Church. I would hope the Byzantine Catholics follow the same faith.

The East has it's own catechism, it's own canons.

Father Serge bless!

The UGCC has a Greco-Catholic Catechism on the way?

In Christ,

John

Shlomo Allen,

The Catechism is drawn up from a Roman prespective, and while it is used by all the Catholic Churches each Holy Tradition is working on their own that is reflective of our own understanding of faith. I do know we Antiochene-Edessans (both East and West are working on a Catechism) and hope within the next few years to have it out for all of our Churches.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Shlomo Saponaria,

Here is a link to the Code of Canons of Oriental Churchs [intratext.com]. We are collectively under these Canons though each Church can add their own Canons particular to their Church.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Yes, Father. Sorry. Poor choice of words. I am blaming it on too much coffee, "too many" small children around me and the resulting mental laziness!

I knew my question wasn't coming out quite right but decided I'd rather just ask it anyway.

Thank you. I entered the Catholic Church from Orthodoxy because of my acceptance of the authority of the Pope. However I have to admit what I have not worked out is the exact nature of the role of his authority over the various Eastern Catholic Churches. I have a good number of Latin rite Catholic friends and the CCC is bandied about left and right in explanation of just what the Catholic Church teaches on pretty much every issue. It was much easier for me as an Orthodox Christian to say what we believed. I find myself confused at this point over saying just what I believe on various topics. And I wonder just how much every papal encyclical applies to me as a Ruthenian.

As an Orthodox Christian I felt confident in turning to various writings of the Church Fathers to examine an issue. It seems however with my Latin Catholic friends no one does this. The only sources are pretty much current encyclicals and the CCC. However I know the CCC and various papal encyclicals aren't necessarily presenting the traditions of the East. I hope people realize I am not arguing against Papal encyclicals. What I am trying to understand is just how much those apply to me since I am not Latin rite. And just how different is the role the Pope plays with Catholics of Eastern traditions versus those of the West?

Hello, YES, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is binding on ALL rites of the Catholic Church. This is why there are numerous references in the Catechism to the eastern rite churches. IF the Pope writes an encyclical on a "just war" it is binding on all Catholics. This is why we are Catholic and follow the chair of St. Peter. IF we could discard or shrug off the Pope and his authority we would be called Orthodox.

the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" is a document of the Latin Church - and does not reflect the theology of the Eastern Catholic Churches or Eastern Catholic Canon Law. It does (very kindly) make the occasional reference to eastern churches - but from the point of view of one Sister church to another.

The authority of the Pope over the Latin Church is both as Pope and especially and particularly as Patriarch. This latter function the Pope of the First Rome does not exercise over the Eastern Catholic Church.

Herb

Hello,



I think we are just making things more confusing for Saponaria.

Let's see. Over all Catholics, regardless of which particular church they belong to or which ritual tradition that particular church might follow, the Bishop of Rome has full, immediate and ordinary episcopal authority.

That means that the Bishop of Rome may supplement or override any episcopal "function" for every Catholic.

The Bishop of Rome has jurisdiction for any and every matter of eclessial life. However, it is very rare that he would actually intervene (for that matter, it is rare he intervenes in the daily matters of the Diocese of Rome, for which he has a permanet vicar "running" the Diocese, while he devouts his time to his role of universal shepherd).

His authority is there to guarantee there is a last recourse, but 99.9999% of the time, this is not necessary and the local ordinaries (bishops and archbishops) handle their diocese on their own.

Now, for the members of the Latin church sui-iuris, the Bishop of Rome acts ALSO as canonical head. Some would say that the Bishop of Rome is the "Patriarch" of the Latin church, but we need to understand that of the various meanings of "Patriarch", none fits perfectly the role of the Pope in the Latin church.

This means the Pope is the main canonical legislator for the Latin church (of course, when there is canonical legislative work, it is mostly the Roman Curia doing the work and the Pope simply stamping his approval).

This is different from the Eastern churches sui iuris, in which the main canonical legislative body is the Holy Synod. Once the Holy Synod of a church approves a reform to its canon law, the has to be confirmed by Rome, but the process is within each Eastern church, Rome can only say 'yay' or 'nay'.

Now, if you are asking if your relationship with the Pope, at the level of the individual Catholic faithful is different whether you are Byzantine, Maronite, Copt or Latin, the answer is no, at least not significantly.

Shalom,
Memo

Was this meant to be as condescending as it comes across? This is why I hesitate to ask questions. I can be guaranteed there is always someone on most Catholic and Orthodox forums who can't handle just giving the facts without presenting it in a "Well, duh, stupid!" manner.

Actually, I am curious if you have anything that backs that up. I AM genuinely looking for facts not just opinion and it seems to me if the CCC is equally binding on all rites and all papal encyclicals are as well there ought to be something to substantiate it. And that IS what I am trying to find. So I would appreciate something to back that up if you do have it and it is more than just your opinion or understanding of things.

Shlomo Saponaria,


Read Orientalium Ecclesiarum [vatican.va] which directs the Eastern Catholic Churches to go back to their roots. The present Catechism is a Roman document ment for Roman faithful. It does not reflect our sprituality or our theological understanding.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon